Not feeding a seed diet?

[tropiclegirl]

I was wondering if anyone feeds only a fresh food and pellet diet and no seeds??

I have been feeding the girls the Golden feast mixes. I buy a few different varieties and mix them into one. I also provide pellets in there cages and in Roxy's cage a few handful of shelled nuts a day. For breakfast and dinner they get there fresh fruits, veggies, grains, pastas etc.

With the seed mixes, they seem to pick out certain things and leave the rest. I am having alot of wasted food and they don't seem to be eating much of there pellets. It seems like they are filling up more on the "junk food" then on the important stuff.

I have been thinking about cutting out the seed mixes and maybe just offering it as a once in a while treat. I figured that this would leave more room in there tummies for the better foods such as the fresh foods and the pellets.

Any advice? :)

[Shirley]

We feed according to the recommendations at the nutrition labs at AAV -- pelleted with fresh foods, and seed/nuts 1-2xweek. We've cut way back on the amount of Goldenfeast wasted, as a result. Also, Be careful how many nuts and what kind - some are very fattening. A person I know who was a vet tech for an avian vet in FL feeds her macaws (she has several in a huge birdroom) a nut each on Sundays.

[tropiclegirl]

My understanding was that Macaws need a high fat diet and to feed more nuts then other parrots????

I don't feed peanuts. Roxy gets almonds, hazelnut, walnut, and brazil.

[Shirley]

I honestly don't know, but this lady is quite a knowledgeable person regarding macaws specifically, and parrots in general, and she told me once that she fed an almond a week to her macaws. I do think, however, that if the bird is flighted and getting plenty of exercise, then they can eat a lot more - nuts, etc.

Jim is the one to talk to about this... and remember: I give nutrition advice based on the "general population" of bird owners. Most people do not have time to properly shop, prepare, and feed their birds natural fresh foods, so the pelleted diet is best for the complete formulation of nutrients: fats, vitamins, minerals, etc.

[tropiclegirl]

Thanks Shirley :thanx:

I agree that exercise is also a big factor. I try to keep alot of activity varieties for them. Roxy is one feather away from being completely flighted :emot-danc:emot-danc. My husband and i try to do a few recall flights in the house everyday for Roxy to stretch out those big wings. We are having so much fun with her. Marlyn on the other hand i don't think was ever properly trained to fly because she is ALL over the place. I just clipped a few of her wings the other day. She is more of a perch potato and she only gets 1 to 2 nuts per week as a treat.

[Ellen K. Cook, DVM]

Tina, I only recommend giving nuts/seeds as treats for reinforcing desirable behavior. Macaws do need more fat in their diets, so 1-2 nuts per week is OK. I recommend daily nuts only for flighted birds getting LOTS of flight-that really burns the calories! For a big treat, I give my guys a nut IN THE SHELL (more fun for to open themselves) when they go into their cages. I also recommend walnuts/almonds as the best nuts. For training, I will break the nuts into tiny pieces, so I can get more for my nut, so to speak ;)

This is what I recommend to my clients:

75% pellets (Harrison's, Roudybush, ZuPreem are my favorites)
15 % veggies
5% fruits
5% "healthy" people foods (rice, pasta, cereal,etc.)/seeds/nuts

NO alcohol, caffeine, salt, chocolate, avocado
AVOID (or give only in very tiny amounts) animal protein, dairy, peanuts, Brazil nuts, sugar

[tropiclegirl]

This is great info Dr. C Thank you. And this will also save me alot of money on nuts :funny:

The nuts that i give are in the shell, takes her longer to eat them :funny:

[Jim]

First let me say there is no doubt in my mind, best we know today, pellets have all the nutrition our parrots should need. Now for my disclaimer. What I'm about to say works for me and my birds and is what I consider healthy for them.

In my opinion there is more to good physical health than eating the right amount or near perfect balance of vitamins and nutrients. There is more to eating than that. It's the whole process of taste, texture, the work involved in digging out the part they need or want, in our case that would be cutting it up and mixing up the taste with different foods as we eat. We are much farther removed from eating wild, hunting for and ripping apart our food, than our parrots. I can only guess but I'd say if any of us were offered the same meal with the same taste day after day, healthy as it may be, eating would loose it's over all health value.

It does take a comment that may not work for some. Teaching, I like to say allowing them learn, what to eat works good for my boys. They are not seed junkies anymore than I'm a cookie junkie. Just because I have cookies in the pantry my diet isn't cookies.

For what it's worth that's my take on it. I'm a firm believer in healthy food and lots of exercise. I'm talking 'exercise' where they are out of breath and lots of mental stimulation that gets them excited.

On a side note. I had this talk with a friend the other day and it kind of fits in here. When you see your bird excited with it's feathers all standing out, that's a good thing. They need to exercise each of those muscles at the base of those feathers.;)

[Eriisu-chan]

I feed Tango Golden Feast Hookbill, too... he refuses any pellets, I've tried. He just won't eat and SCREAM non stop because he's hungry.... stubborn little bugger. We got Mav eating a mix of Golden Feast Petite Hookbill and Harrisons pellets... It took a while to get him to eat that particular mix and we're working on getting him on the pellets without the Golden Feast...

[CocosMomma]

I just wanted to give a comment on the aspect of the 'work' involved in finding and selecting food. Coco has not had a 'food dish' for nearly a year now. Unless I am giving her something messy, like pasta, she finds food in various areas around the Fort.

When I first began this process, I actually had to teach her basic and advanced foraging skills. While she learned quickly, at first there was no 'hiding' of food. Everything was in the open, but I still had to point it out and direct her to it at first.

As time went on, slowly the food became more challenging for her to find and was not necessarily in the same place on any given day. As is the case in the wild; today there might be food somewhere that there was not yesterday and may not be tomorrow.

It was a fascinating process to watch and still is. The first thing I noticed was that each piece of food she found had intrinsically more value. She immediately stopped wasting food and throwing it around haphazardly. Her eyes pin as she searches for food, and she will often pass several pellets by, then find yet another of the same pellets, and then will find one that she selects to eat at that time. It amazed me that she would not simply eat the first pellet she came to since that was what she was looking to eat. If she is hungry, pellets will always be her first choice, and after eating several she will then search for a pepper, banana chip, almond, etc.

As she eats a pellet she will then walk the 8 feet over to the water dish, then back to find another pellet, then back to the water dish.... the process of finding food and eating now consumes a great deal of time for her during the day. I think that this process of finding, bypassing, selecting/choosing a certain piece of food over another, the excitement of the find... I believe it to be part of the mental stimulation you are referring to, Jim. :)

[Jim]

Hey Tina, I've been thinking about this and want to add a little something. I got off on a personal tangent on this feeding thing. Hard to believe I'd do that, isn't it.

I hate wasting food also and that's one of the reasons I got started on this feeding/eating healthy food behavior with the boys. I set a goal of them eating 90% of what I fed. I cut back and added to until I came to a happy medium where they eat 90%+ of their food. I felt good with this because I didn't see it as stressful or aversive. I think this is what also helped them 'learn' to eat what was good for them. To this day I watch them eat a pellet or two, then some veggies, then some seed, etc. Sort of like Robin observes with Coco, I see them enjoy eating. It's hard to explain. It's not a joy of eating to fill hunger it's more a joy of eating.

[Jim]

...I believe it to be part of the mental stimulation you are referring to, Jim. :)Yes, it sure is.:) Thanks for adding to this some times confusing but important topic of diet. That's so cool that Coco forages for her food.:thumbup:

Maybe this will make more sense to everyone as how I see diet/feeding. We all know the bottom of the scale, the nightmare of neglect. Then there is my dream of this huge aviary with all the natural plants and food they need. With this nightmare and wonderful dream in mind I do the best I can.

[tropiclegirl]

Thanks everyone :thanx:

They seem to be doing great now with there pellets and don't seem to be wasting as much of there fresh food. I always kept the pellets (both Roudybush and Zupreem) in there cages but with the seed mix that i was providing, there pellets were pretty much untouched.

Also, with Roxy since she came home has had a case of being "stuffy". Her nasal area would sometimes get red and she was all stuffed up sounding all the time. I took her to the vets a few times and all of her tests came back fine. Once she was put on antibiotics and it didnt go away. This last time that i took her in for her foot, the Dr. put her on antibiotic nasal drops. None of this stuff has worked. Well now after switching her food, the stuffiness has disappeared. Im guessing that there was maybe something in the mix that she might have been allergic too???? Im also giving her showers everyday now instead of once or twice a week. Not sure, its only been a couple of days so we'll see :)

[3Kids4Fids]

I was wondering if anyone feeds only a fresh food and pellet diet and no seeds??

I have been feeding the girls the Golden feast mixes. I buy a few different varieties and mix them into one. I also provide pellets in there cages and in Roxy's cage a few handful of shelled nuts a day. For breakfast and dinner they get there fresh fruits, veggies, grains, pastas etc.

With the seed mixes, they seem to pick out certain things and leave the rest. I am having alot of wasted food and they don't seem to be eating much of there pellets. It seems like they are filling up more on the "junk food" then on the important stuff.

I have been thinking about cutting out the seed mixes and maybe just offering it as a once in a while treat. I figured that this would leave more room in there tummies for the better foods such as the fresh foods and the pellets.

Any advice? :)

I read all the ingredients on pellets before settling on TOPS, but see that so many people prefer TOPS. I have rescues that came to me as pluckers/feather chewers. I am really trying to get them healthy. Is TOPS not as good? Thank you. :confused:

[Shirley]

I've heard good things about TOPS, and of course, Roudybush and Harrison's. We feed Roudybush along with fresh foods and Goldenfeast Hookbill Legume.