Hand feeding.....some questions

[Islandzoo]

Ok think this may be one for shirley

I am not planning for a moment to incubate eggs. As you've said before I really need to see it done and speak to someone in person. but as part of my research perhaps you can give me some pointers;) to help me decide which route to take..

I would like to leave the chicks with the parents as long as possible so at what age should I be pulling them from the nest?
If I leave the feeding totally to the parents can I take them out for handling if so how long for? Can I still get tame pets this way??
Or at what age can they be fed 2 or 3 times a day and can I remove them at this age?
How often should I be weighing htem - just once a day? and from the moment they hatch?
won't the parent birds get cross at them being taken?
How do I know how much they should weigh - is there some kind of chart? does it depend on the species (well obivously to an extent - but where do you suppose I can get this kind of indepth info - how do other breeders learn this?)
Is the actual physical feeding them difficult to get right?

how do I know when they should begin to wean - is it like, at x weeks start feeding solids and at x weeks baby will start feeding himself??

If I let the parents do it all (ie if I can't get enough knowlege to risk doing myself) how can I learn this stuff though? Im not fortunate enough to know anyone who does this but am trying very hard right now to find someone near me who does!!

I hope these questions don't sound stupid :rolleyes: I totally realise this is big responsiblity and what i may be letting myself in for :agree: I need to know if realistically i will be able to do some hand rearing at all or if i'm gonna end up with parent raised aviary birds/ breeders......

I've found a video on hand feeding I'm planning to buy and antoher book. I need ideally a book specifically on hand rearing Pi's but such a thing is very specialist and doesn't exist to my knowledge. I can't even find a website on hand feeding Pi's but I did find a very helpful one on hand feeding love birds which i've put in my favourites for future reference! it's a good guide to the equipment needed and stuff.

I want to do this properly, I'm determined to make a go of it, but I don't want to end up with sick or malnourished babies of course!

[Jean]

Shirley is for sure the "baby" hand feeding expert. She should be along shortly to give some good tips. However, I do agree, you need some hands on expert training. Maybe, from your avian vet or a vet tech assistant.

Is a hand feeding schedule going to be hard for you since you are working away from home so many hours? Not to mention your evening school classes. There are always unforseen things to consider when breeding. Who will be with them to hand feed them if the parents reject them or start to mutilate the babies feet.

[SadennaAndFlock]

it's always a good idea to learn how to hand feed for those just in case times the parents decide not to feed which can sometimes happen hard to predict if they will sit and feed or not..no way to learn better than hands on experiance you can't learn proper technique by looking a pictures in a book or watching a video..see if there is a reputable breeder or avian vet that can show you how to handfeed. Definantly something that you need to learn even before allowing a pair to breed you have to be prepared..with the hands on experiance I have had I can handfeed any species of bird from a few weeks to a few months old even a tiny little day 1, I know I would never be able to do without hands on experiance...from learning how to mix the formula to learning the right temperature..to the techinique of how to hold the syringe...

[dee]

I know of cockatiel breeders who actually handles his babys often. They check the boxes most days and clean out the boxes to make sure the chicks arent surrounded with their droppings, by taking the babies out cleaning the box and putting the babies back in ( after a cuddle or 2!). The parents havnt been overly concerned about this and continue to feed without a problem. The babies are then taken out and put in nursery cage shortly before fledging. By this stage they are quite use to being handled. When time comes to sell the cockatiels they are advertised as handled, and people buy them as pets; the breeeders only step in to handraise when the parents either stop feeding or hurt the babies.

This is what I plan to try with my babies, I want to let the mums and dads do what they can and only handfeed them if I have to. Any opinions on this please feel free to tell me! as I'm learning as I go to!

[Jean]

I know of cockatiel breeders who actually handles his babys often. They check the boxes most days and clean out the boxes to make sure the chicks arent surrounded with their droppings, by taking the babies out cleaning the box and putting the babies back in ( after a cuddle or 2!). The parents havnt been overly concerned about this and continue to feed without a problem. The babies are then taken out and put in nursery cage shortly before fledging. By this stage they are quite use to being handled. When time comes to sell the cockatiels they are advertised as handled, and people buy them as pets; the breeeders only step in to handraise when the parents either stop feeding or hurt the babies.

This is what I plan to try with my babies, I want to let the mums and dads do what they can and only handfeed them if I have to. Any opinions on this please feel free to tell me! as I'm learning as I go to!

Sadenna, I am sorry I forgot all about your hand feeding experience! :doh:
:thumbup: Thanks for the good input!

[Shirley]

Sadenna is our expert with the wide variety of species.

I have only a bit of time right now...first time on the board all day...

I know nothing about pionous.

Yes you can tame Bourke's without handfeeding them.

Doing the same with Parrotlets is much more difficult if not practically impossible. Sadenna, what are your thoughts on parent-raised parrotlets ever being tame compared to hand-raised?

If I plan to handraise, as in the case with parrotlets, I take part of the clutch at 13-15 days, and the rest a few days later when they are 13-15 days.

Once I take them, they are in the brooder, no more parents, and with me as their feeder. I feed them usually 4-5 times/day for starters, about 3-4 hrs apart... parrotlets.

I weigh them daily before their first feeding, and never had "charts" to know what they should weigh, but I sure knew they shouldn't be dropping much weight. I know what an adult (or young weaned baby) should weigh.

Get hands-on experience from a good caring breeder who does not force-feed the babies.

And remember... it may be a few years before your birds decide to produce. Seriously.

~ Shirley

[SadennaAndFlock]

well budgies can be tamed down even parent fed, some say never to handraise budgies because they can become aggressive as they have no fear, but I have seen some very sweet handraised adult budgies. As for parrotlets these little guys can pact quite the attitude and think they are big, I have had the opportunity to be around parent raised parrotlets and they seem madder than march hairs and skittish and hard to work with course thats babies that have been fully raised by mom and dad and never pulled for handfeeding... I would say handraised parrotlets make better pets and companions, make sure you are going to have a flexible enough schedule that you will be able to step in as early as possible, make sure you have a good brooder set up and ready to go, hand feeding formula, syringes, gram scale all that good stuff ready to go... they make portable brooders by brinsea that plug into your car and can go with you if need be...I say if mom and dad will sit and feed let them do this for a bit just don't leave babies in the nest box to long you don't want them fully feathered and fledging they could be harder to work with if you pull and handfeed babies as soon as they are pinning then you will be ok

[Islandzoo]

Thanks for your replies :)

This may sound silly question - but how do you guys keep your record cards?
do you have ring binder files with dividers or do you just keep them in card folders - what do you think is best?
we were going to start some kind of file of info right from when we get the pair, or even from now, where we can start to put information that we gather up. Just wondered what other people do......

[Shirley]

I have a sheet I printed off the net that states parents, laying dates, hatch dates, etc.

I just make copies of that, I band everyone and then write down the band number on the record sheet so I ALWAYS know which baby belongs to which clutch date and parents, and then each baby goes home with a "hatch certificate" of date, parents, photos printed on the certif, etc.

~ Shirley

[bkmaurer]

I have been breeding parrotlets for the last 7 years, and I disagree with being able to only tame pulled chicks from the parents. I tame mine after I let the parents raise them to 4 weeks. I just simply hold them to my chest so they can hear my heart beat and learn to trust my hands for about 5-10 minutes every day. It is not that hard to tame them down. But that has been my experience. I generally let the parents feed them. I will hand feed if the parents get agressive, but generally, I let the parents care for their young. And my babies are tame.

[Shirley]

I agree that they can certainly be tamed if parent-raised to 4 weeks and if they'll (the babies and/or the parents) allow you to take over the feeding, or even if you just take them out and interact with them every day. In my experience, the babies who aren't touched by the breeders until they are ready to sell at 8-9 weeks are the ones that are very difficult for the new parrot owner to deal with.

And... I'm an advocate of parents feeding their babies as long as possible. Some parrotlets, unfortunately, won't feed their babies when people interact with them.

Kristie posted this in 2005 and I forget now what species she was considering raising, but it wasn't parrotlets.

And -- Welcome to the forum! I'm thrilled to have a experienced breeder of parrotlets on board!! :dance: I'd like to invite you to introduce yourself in our Introduction forum - we'd love to meet you and hear about your birds!
http://www.thebirdforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20

[Islandzoo]

blimey this is an old thread, I couldn't even remember posting it!!

it was pionus shirley. Obviously we never went there in the end. Not to say we won't in the future though.