Looking for some input....

[jackcjjc]

Hi

A few weeks ago I adopted a Sun Conure. He has been great, very friendly, etc. He has justed started shying away from me taking him out of his cage. I have no idea why. I normally get up at 5 AM and his normal routine has been to ride on my shoulder while I do my normal morning routine. He usually goes back into his cage at 8 AM when I leave for work. When I come home he is usually out and riding around on my shoulder until his bed time which is around 8 or 9 PM. On weekends and when I am home his cage door is left open for him to come out if he wants, which he does not, or he is in the room that I am in. The past few days he has been hesitant about stepping up on my finger to come out and it is taking a great amount of coaxing and time to get him out. He has been moving away from me when I try to bring him out when before he would just hop right on my finger. I am not sure what gives. Any advice? This has just been going on for a few days. He is eating and doing everything else in his normal way. he even calls when I get home from work and is hanging on the side of his cage lightly fluttering his wings but when I go over to get him he backs away.
Thanks in advnace for your advice and help.

Regards,
Jack

[Eriisu-chan]

My advice? Don't insist... if he doesn't want to, he doesn't want to. Maybe he's still tired at 5am and would rather sleep? The days are shorter, so maybe he's feeling the winter slump? :shrug2:

[Shirley]

I agree with Elise. And it's always the bird's choice -

Find other time to continue your good job with him - and remember:
Behavior that is repeated is being reinforced, and behavior that is not repeated is not being reinforced. ~ Susan Friedman, Ph.D.

[Geoffrey]

I'm the parrot-less intruder on the board (slightly kidding), but I'd probably just open the door and go about my normal routine. If he wants out, he'll climb out on top of the cage and you can pick him up from there. That's what I did with my cockatiels (when I actually had cockatiels).

[Shirley]

yes, what Geoffrey said. :thumbup: Birds are birds, and behavior is behavior... doesn't matter if your bill is hooked or not. :agree:

[Jim]

We can also provide more choices, like a high value reinforcer, to encourage behaviors we want. Choice is still top of the list but high value reinforces work wonders when it comes to learning. You know that.:)

[Jim]

Hi Jack, me again.:)

I've been thinking about this today, my other post was in a hurry as I was leaving. Of course giving the bird choices, not pushing them, is correct, as has been said. Also, as you know in your profession, behavior that is repeated is being reinforced. Therefor, being in the cage would be more reinforcing than coming out. I don't know about you but I want my birds to get out and get stimulation as much as possible. Nature takes care of this in the wild. Stay in one place and starve or become lunch. That doesn't happen in our homes so it's my believe we need to encourage, reinforce, being out of the cage.

Could you up the pay for coming out? Like us, doing the same thing over and over for the same payoff can get old and we tend to get comfortable where we are with what we have. No need to explain that to you, I'm sure.:)

[jackcjjc]

Thank you all for your input.

I am not sure why this behavior has started.

Jim, I am not really sure how I can make coming out of his cage more inviting. In the mornings he usually is on my shoulder picking at my morning stubble or rummaging thru my hair. I usually do some housework for about and hour or so before getting showered, so he is with me while I am dusting thru the house or doing laundry, etc. He has always seemed pretty happy just to be with me. When I take my shower he is usually in the bathroom with me and when I am getting dressed he is usually on top of his upstairs play cage, he has a play cage in the living room area of my bedroom and another cage where he sleeps, eats, etc in the sunroom.
At night time I usually have him with me if I am working on the computer, watching TV etc. He has always seemed quite happy just to be near me. Last night I tried to encourage him to step up on my finger by offering a food item. He definitely was interested in the food item, just not interested in climbing aboard my finger. I have decided to just give him space. When he sees me he will usually call out and start fluttering his wings while biting onto the side of the cage. I read somewhere that this was his way of telling me that he wanted to be with me, the flock. But when I go to get him he just climbs higher into the cage and backs away. If I walk away he will start this behavior all over again. If I talk to him from outside the cage he is okay with that and will come close to where my face is and start the head bobbing and dancing but again if I go to place my finger near him to step up on he just keeps backing away. From what I have read so far I am just going to let him make the choices. When I am home his cage door is always open but ever since I have had him he always has chosen to remain in the cage and not venture out. If I place him on top of his cage, he just climbs back in.
Thank you all again.
Regards,
Jack

[jackcjjc]

Well I was able to solve my dilema with Solis, my Sun Conure. Since he was going to the top of the cage every time I tried to get him out, I just decided to take the top off and see what happens. He now will step up on my finger either from the top or from the cage door. He does not leave his cage when I am not around so during the days while I am home I am going to just take the top off.
Now if I can only get him and my cockatiels to try new foods. Solis, the conure, will only eat pellets. Every day he gets fresh spring mix lettuce, some spinach, Birdie bread that I baked, cut up apple, orange, sometimes bananas, some broccoli and a few pecans or walnuts, sometimes a boiled eggs mashed with shell ( I do not serve all of this everyday but different combinations) and every night I take them out uneaten. He will not even go near that dish. I have read that a small amount of conure seed at night will not hurt. He does not even touch that. The same with my cockatiels. Screech and Peter will only eat seeds. I have added pellets to their seed mix but everyday I discard the uneaten pellets. They get the same lettuce, spinach, birdie bread, etc and do not touch it either. The only other thing that the birds do like is a millet spray, which they devour.
Well I guess I just need to address one thing at a time so a BIG thumbs up :thumbup: for Solis being back to his friendly, normal self again.

Jack

[Shirley]

:goodjob: Great news!

As for converting them to pellets -- you can do this, but you'll need to stick to a plan that's proven to work - it worked for two cockatiels we rescued from a place last June, and they switched in 3 days, I believe.

Nothing but pellets, all day.

Late at night - a tsp of seed if they haven't touched their pellets (consider what your bird will eat... a tsp worked for the tiels - and the point was not to give them all they could eat)

Next morning, remove the seed if there is any, and replenish pellets as needed. Keep this up, and weigh the birds each morning - you don't want to starve them.

If you continue pellets in the seed bowl, that's kinda like candy in the vegetable bowl... the kid will eat the candy - and to heck with the veggies. They are just "in the way".
:wub:

[Rifty]

Have you tried eating some of the foods you're offering to the birds around them? I know that if I or my family eats food near the birds they are right there and want to know what it is and can they have some please? Also with the cockatiels are you making sure the servings are small enough? I've found that my three don't eat foods that are too big for them to pick up in their beaks and walk around with. If I had to suggest a veggie for them it would have to be peas, my three just go nuts for peas. I also reccomend Shirley's method for converting cockatiels from seed to pellets as that's what we used with our first cockatiel, course it took us a bit longer.

[Shirley]

It always took me a lot longer, and often I gave up. But... with these two tiels, Dr. C was on me like you wouldn't believe -- DON'T FEED THOSE BIRDS ANY SEED!! (they'll starve) NO THEY WON'T. and I followed her directive to a T, and they converted! Now remember, I weighed them, and I gave them a bit at night since they didn't appear to eat all day long...

[Jim]

...If you continue pellets in the seed bowl, that's kinda like candy in the vegetable bowl... the kid will eat the candy - and to heck with the veggies. They are just "in the way".
:wub:Now Shirl'. First a hug.:tighthug: You know I have a 'thing' about diet.:nuts::) Yes, kids may eat the candy. Not sure seed is candy but that's neither here nor there. See, I have all kind of food in the pantry and fridge, including candy. I don't fill up on candy and my boys don't fill up on seed just because it's there.

Just saying.... as Scotty would have said.

[Shirley]

Well... just sayin.... (hug back) if one is trying to convert to pellets...

Not to say one can't offer a host of other nutritious foods in place of pellets/seed.... :D

Oh, and me, I go for the chocolate, the peppermint stick ice cream, the cereal w/milk n sugar... to heck with the veggies... ;)

[CocosMomma]

... I heard peppermint ice cream and chocolate mentioned.... what was I supposed to do?:shrug2: Sit back and not get my share?:nuts:

Over the past 30 years I've had some interesting experiences in converting to pellets and in observing my various individual birds. There was a time when there were no pellets, and a sack of grocery store or pet store seed was standard fare. Nutrition, like all other aspects of our bird's care, have come a long way.

I've had several birds that only converted by cold turkey. It is important to note (as Shirley mentioned regarding weighing) that it is never the objective to starve them to death. And some birds, notoriously budgies, can be stubborn enough to starve to death and it doesn't take long. So that is part of our caregiver responsibility. I've had many others who did well on the gradual method of reducing the amount of seed and replacing it with pellets until no seed was offered. Each bird reacts differently. I've also had success with the apple juice method I designed for very stubborn parrots where the pellets were soaked in juice, and the juice was gradually watered down until it was only water. Then gradually less and less water until they were offered and accepted dry.

In many respects, converting a parrot to 'veggies' is pretty much the same as converting to pellets. The palate needs to be developed and they need to recognize it as food. Once they do, I've never had a problem having parrots with the main component being veggies and pellets, while offering a small amount of many other things including seeds and nuts. They eat a little of everything.

Because Coco is cageless and does not have a food bowl, I've gotten to watch her in ways that I've never watched any other bird. If she is not really that hungry, she will take a seed, cracker or nut. But it has been most profound to see her bypass those items in search for a pellet or veggie when she is hungry. Whatever the mechanism, she has repeated this behavior time and time.

[Jim]

...Because Coco is cageless and does not have a food bowl, I've gotten to watch her in ways that I've never watched any other bird. If she is not really that hungry, she will take a seed, cracker or nut. But it has been most profound to see her bypass those items in search for a pellet or veggie when she is hungry. Whatever the mechanism, she has repeated this behavior time and time.I see the same with the boys and macaws are supposedly seed and nut junks.

Maybe a new thread about this would be interesting? My point was, we compare our birds to kids who would eat junk food. I would think an adult bird, like adult humans, would see food as more than filling the need to satisfy hunger. Who hasn't seen the chocolate or candy when hungry but said to their self, I need something good.