Might be a gross question...

[all4stvoyager]

To any of you that feed your birds small bits of egg...hardboiled, specifically...have you noticed it turn your bird's poop from green to red?

Mister is motling, so I have increased his protein intake a bit by adding eggs. 1/4 of a hard boiled egg plus whole shell. All of a sudden today I notices reddish poop. Sorry for the grossness...but you all know that poop is a health indicator :)

Any ideas or observations would be appreciated!

Oh, and nothing else in his diet has changed...other than we are out of roudybush pellets...

[Shirley]

Chopped hard-boiled egg is fine. I used to feed the cooked crushed shell, but not anymore. The calcium in the eggshell is not usable, and so I leave that out now. For cockatiel and smaller, we have cuttle bone 24/7 in their cages. For the rest, their pelleted diet has their proper calcium and other vit/min balance, amino acids, omegas, etc. Additionally, broccoli has calcium which is usable. :)

I've not seen a difference in poop color due to feeding egg. :confused:

[Geoffrey]

Why is the calcium in eggshell not usable? People give it to chickens and other birds (as a dietary supplement)?

[Shirley]

Well.... at AAV, there was a degreed nutritionist who explained the chemistry of it, and if my son, an organic chemist were here (he's teaching tonight), he could likely give an answer --- but the calcium in the eggshell is not assimilated, even though yes, we give it to birds and chickens....

For example, there are different kinds of iron supplement pills, and some have the form of iron that is mainly excreted, and some don't. Elemental iron is usable, for instance. I think it's ferrous iron that isn't? I'd have to check, but that's getting OT....

[Shirley]

Some science to ponder:

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/51/1/51.pdf

Note this eggshell calcium is blended with magnesium and Vit D3 - and use of elemental calcium is mentioned...
http://kaeco.com/EggshellCalcium/eggshellcalcium.htm

another source, mentioning same as above:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Eggshell-Calcium-Human-Diet---The-Connection-between-Eggshell-Calcium-and-Human-Diet&id=707062

This article seems to support the value of eggshell calcium - in piglets.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/63003036/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Perhaps the problem is that the way the calcium is taken from the eggshell and fed to the animal vs the animal eating and trying to digest whole bits of eggshell is the difference.

[Shirley]

Perhaps this is the best answer:

http://www.ebirdmall.net/features_calcium.mgi

[Geoffrey]

I'm not sure I'm totally convinced yet. The information I read in one link said that Calcium Carbonate is what is needed and that can be found in Oyster shells, but Calcium Carbonate is also what forms egg shells - same mineral. The one talking about liquid calcium supplements leaves me skeptical as well - first of all because they happen to be selling the same supplement they are praising :p But also because they seem to assume that captive birds aren't getting calcium any other way.

"The combination of factors of nutrient-depleted soils from centuries of use and synthetic fertilizers forcing crops to grow rapidly with no regard to nutrient absorption, results in foods having very little mineral nutritional value. Therefore calcium is not in the plants, hence not in your bird’s food."

I don't have any bird food here with me, but just reading off some plant materials:

1 packet of instant oatmeal - 10% daily value of calcium
some instant rice (1 cup) - also contains calcium - 8%

Of course, we were originall discussing eggshells, so back on track:
Sources of Nutrients
Source: Avian Medicine: The Principles and Application. Based on
information from the National Research Council and a Kaytee Technical Bulletin
Excellent sources of calcium: Calcium carbonate (cuttlebone, eggshell), Bone Meal
Good sources: Fish & meat meals, Kelp, Alfalfa meal, Whey
Adequate sources: Dried milk, Cheese, Oil type seeds, Most nuts

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww22eii.htm --- fully detailed chart 1/2 way down

Edit: Now if the bird has a vitamin D deficiency, I can see why these forms of calcium wouldn't be assimilated. But, assuming the bird recieves some natural light or full-spectrum lighting, I don't see why normal forms of calcium wouldn't be absorbed.

[Nolan's Mom]

Sara - I have noticed that Nolan's fecals change color based on what color pellets he is eating at that time :) Also, when he eats blueberries we often get really dark purple poop! Not sure what in egg would do that, but I think as long as it is a normal looking fecal you are ok ;)

[all4stvoyager]

Well, and I just remembered that yesterday he started eating mango as well...I think there is a higher chance that the mangoes did it than the egg...although I am enjoying the egg shell debate :)

I guess my question would be: does it hurt them? could it cause calcium deposits or kidney stones? or something? or does it just pass through...and they have fun crunching on something else?

[Shirley]

Geoffrey, I don't know the answers to these issues, but the Birdsnways link was posted in their 1998 e-magazine.... and the nutritionist at the AAV conference was disseminating the latest research results and nutritional information. I wish I had my notes -- Dr. Cook may have them... not sure, but I think I wrote some notes on that and then I know I gave them all to Dr. C.

[Shirley]

....
I guess my question would be: does it hurt them? could it cause calcium deposits or kidney stones? or something? or does it just pass through...and they have fun crunching on something else?

I was not told that eggshells were bad for birds, just that it wasn't a good source of calcium.

[Eriisu-chan]

Keep an eye on the poops... I read that red poop can be indicative of internal bleeding... :shrug2:

Hopefully, though, the mangoes did it and that'll be that! :agree:

[Flock Mom]

Can't contribute to the eggshell debate...but from experience with "ekkies" please feed only the white of the egg to Mister. The yolk contains cholesterol and eclectus are prone to fatty liver disease. Stay away from the yolk. If you feel you must feed it to them...feed only very small amounts.
I thought I was doing good by feeding Conan (male ekkie) scrambled eggs once a week and my avian vet told me No...No...NO. This is because Conan has been diagnosed with fatty liver disease and has been treated for it twice now. She told me to just scramble him some egg whites with fresh parsley added.
I try to keep his diet with no fat now and lots and lots of veggies...not much fruit unless it's a true berry.

[Nolan's Mom]

Can't contribute to the eggshell debate...but from experience with "ekkies" please feed only the white of the egg to Mister. The yolk contains cholesterol and eclectus are prone to fatty liver disease. Stay away from the yolk. If you feel you must feed it to them...feed only very small amounts.
I thought I was doing good by feeding Conan (male ekkie) scrambled eggs once a week and my avian vet told me No...No...NO. This is because Conan has been diagnosed with fatty liver disease and has been treated for it twice now. She told me to just scramble him some egg whites with fresh parsley added.
I try to keep his diet with no fat now and lots and lots of veggies...not much fruit unless it's a true berry.

Same for Greys, they are prone to high cholesterol! Nolan was used to getting scrambled eggs regularly and when we went in to our vet for his well bird visit she told us it was ok for once in a while, but if it was going to be a regular thing to just do whites :) Fortunately Nolan loves those too!!!