Starting Chiko on the clicker

[arcadiareptiles]

So i did a short period of clicker training with chiko today for the first time. It was alot of fun. Chiko seemed a bit weary of both till he realised food was involved lol. Especially with the target he didnt like it much. But soon got into it. Once he lost interest i let him go on to his own devices. slowly getting him used to it.

Introducing him to the clicker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o9DMdLKl5s)

Starting the touch command (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_TB5Y-lLO4)

[Shirley]

Super! I left you a comment...

[Shirley]

Have you disabled comments, or do they wait for approval? I've left one for each video.

Please watch Building Trust with your Bird - One Click at a Time! on youtube before continuing your targeting. I left comments, and hopefully you can read them.
I'm happy to see you working with him - working with the clicker and behavior, it's really essential to practice on someone like a human perhaps and then work with the bird. Or... watch a trainer work -- it's a difficult concept to get from reading a book. Timing of the clicker and proper handling/placement of the target are so important.

You'll reap great benefits once you get the hang of it... :)

[arcadiareptiles]

Have you disabled comments, or do they wait for approval? I've left one for each video.

Please watch Building Trust with your Bird - One Click at a Time! on youtube before continuing your targeting. I left comments, and hopefully you can read them.
I'm happy to see you working with him - working with the clicker and behavior, it's really essential to practice on someone like a human perhaps and then work with the bird. Or... watch a trainer work -- it's a difficult concept to get from reading a book. Timing of the clicker and proper handling/placement of the target are so important.

You'll reap great benefits once you get the hang of it... :)

lol i know im really off on the clicker lol. i kept giggling and shaking my head at the timing. i think chiko will forgive me till i get the hang of it hopefully :p

[Shirley]

Well, since it's on youtube, it's great for a critique to help others, but without a critique, you certainly don't want to mislead others. As for being forgiving, please please don't take this wrong... he doesn't know what to forgive, but is instead going to become confused and frustrated, and he might well end up disliking the target even more if you push it toward him. The clicker, off time, won't have any meaning, and clicked for no reason with the target held in front of him will mess up the learning process. The clicker is not a cue to touch, it's a marker that he DID touch. :)

I read and read and didn't get much out of it... I listened to people explain. Then I watched Dr. Cook IN ACTION with MY BIRD and was truly amazed AND I learned so much more in that session than I had in the books!

I'm not trying to push her video... but you really should consider getting her video. She demonstrates with an untrained bird exactly how to condition, target, and get over fearful objects... it's really cool! And... she explains what not to do and why. :highfive:

[Jean]

When I watched the video my thought was your trying so hard to get it right just need a little help. I noticed a very confused and intimidated chiko the same as Shirley spotted. That was before I had read her reply. Please do, watch the video before further training.

You've come a long way in a short time with your new feathered baby. Always remember we are all here to help one another. Feel free to ask as many questions as you can think of. Please don't take any of this as an insult. It's not meant that way at all. We only want to be here to help you and chiko to have the best relationship possible.

[Shirley]

:thanx: Jean - Jean has the gift of explaining things so nicely and I know we all mean to help one another do the best and be the best -- I often "dish out the teaching" on the run... or "get right to the point"... and then I reread later and it doesn't sound like I intended it to sound ... but the main thing I try to impart IF I think I can really be helpful, is something that not only helps the person posting, but the anonymous guests reading, as well as the membership.

It's incredibly important to train properly - it takes a person a long time to undo the damage done to a child by another person, whether it be parenting, teaching, coaching, whatever. And with birds (and cats) I believe it takes even longer. In my experience, dogs have been a bit more flexible with our humane but unintentional mistakes - but not the pets that still carry so much of the wild in them. Maybe I'm incorrect on that last statement.

I'll repeat two things I hear at all of Dr. Friedman's talks:

"Behavior that is repeated is being reinforced in some way, and behavior that is not repeated is not being reinforced."

And:

"ALWAYS give your learner a CHOICE."

Dr. Cook has drilled those two axioms into me countless times. I didn't figure this out overnight. Or in a month.

If you get her DVD, watch it several times. I STILL pick up new things when I watch it, and I was there for the filming, editing, the whole bit! Her delivery of the material is as though it's between YOU, the bird, and her. It's really amazing how she imparts knowledge and demonstrates HOW to do things. It's also extremely helpful imo b/c she is training an untrained bird - a novice learner. Play-Doh, in the DVD, used to bite her to draw blood when she first met him and held her finger for him to make the choice to step up. She stopped right then asking him to step up and started earning his trust by targeting him through the cage bars... every time she visited, she'd play the target game through the cage bars. Eventually, he trusted her, and then eventually, he eagerly greeted her when he saw her come in. She didn't introduce the clicker until we started filming.

I would recommend, as Jean did, that you stop using the clicker until you internalize how the science of behavior works, and then you'll see dramatic resulsts and won't have to spend ever how long undoing what is happening under the present circumstances. (and there I go, getting right to the point again :rolleyes: ... Big hugs :tighthug: and loads of kudos to you for your enthusiasm and work with your pets - all of them!)

[Jim]

Hi Camille

Good for you that you're starting clicking training. The video is great to let others see what you're doing. I agree it would be helpful to watch Dr C's video on youtube.

With that out of the way. I'll tell you what I'd change if I were you to help with Chiko's learning. Take it for what it's worth. For my own sake, I at least have to try to explain what I see in hopes it will help in your clicker training approach. Maybe you're one that can learn by the written word.

1) Hold the clicker still or out of sight if need be. No need to put it close to him or in his face. All he needs to do is hear the click.

2) I'd practice my timing. Watch your BF or Chiko and pretend you have the clicker. The instant they touch or complete doing something you want repeated - click your imaginary clicker.

3) Let him approach the target. If I had to put a toy like a bead or a treat on the target stick for motivation at this time, I would. Once he's got that, I'd remove the bead or treat and reward *only* for touching or following the stick.

[arcadiareptiles]

3) Let him approach the target. If I had to put a toy like a bead or a treat on the target stick for motivation at this time, I would. Once he's got that, I'd remove the bead or treat and reward *only* for touching or following the stick.

Ive been trying since Shirley let the comments on the video.

Only thing is that he tends to tottally ignore me and turns his back to me lol. I try to get his attention but i cant lol.

[Shirley]

Teach when your learner is ready to learn... first thing in the morning, or after he's had his afternoon nap, offer his FAVORITE treat ONLY when you are training. If he doesn't know what you want, then he will appear to not respond. He has to want the benefit of the behavior enough to do the desired behavior.

I can't stress enough the importance of observing and learning before actually training or teaching a bird/pet/child/etc.

I remember when I had horses, people who did not know *how* to ride couldn't get the horse to do much of anything. And the person would *assume* the horse did not like them or didn't want to be ridden. I explained that the horse was clueless what was expected, because their seat in the saddle, their legs, their hands, all the nuances of body language were missing or partially missing regarding riding a trained horse. Once they learned a few things about how to ride, the horse responded very well. Now, if the horse were not trained at all, it would have been such a negative experience that it would have taken a lot more "rehabilitative" training, or remedial training, just to get back up to speed and begin regular training.

Keep it very simple. Click / Treat as you pass by the cage throughout the day. If he doesn't take the treat, drop it in his bowl. Don't make a big deal out of it.

Learning is FUN and it must be fun for your bird to learn. I used to ask my students years ago, "Are we having fun?" in the middle of social studies, or math, and if the answer was No or no reply... I said, then we're doing this wrong and let's change how we learn this material.

:)

~ Shirley

[Jim]

I can see the comments Shirley left now. Couldn't see them yesterday when I looked. Could have saved me some typing if I'd looked today.:) Excellent Shirley!

OK... I'm going to say some things that hopefully won't get me in trouble. Motivation is key when teaching. Forcing, pushing, going to fast, teach the learner to avoid the teaching and us when possible. This is where understanding the science of behavior is important. Again, I hope I'm not offending you or anyone with what I'm going to say.

When the bird is motivated to be with us (me) I've never had a problem with the bird turning his back or not wanting to learn, unless I am pushing him or doing something the bird perceives as fearful - something to avoid.

I see it like this and this includes getting them out of the cage, step up, back in the cage, touching...

If the bird does not want to do it (be with me) I don't force them to. I don't want to stray from your targeting but I feel it's necessary to look at this if we want to start off on the best possible note we can. Trust me if you will and it's from experience counted in minutes of working with my flighted birds that can fly away from me at any time in the house or out. Empowering the bird to control his life (environment) will be repaid a hundred fold.

We don't lose control, we actually gain a companion that is more than willing to learn and behave as we want. I think it's so they can gain more freedom. Much like us as we grow up and continue to live our life freely, as empowered beings.

So with that said only you have the answer to motivation. Food is a good motivator and I agree with Shirley's above post. For long term results, food shouldn't be WHY they work - it should be the reward FOR working.

The very best ever motivator (in my book) is being the person that has empowered the bird to control their life. It's permanent and works before or after meals any time of the day or night.

Now that your brain may be spinning out of control.:nuts:

Why do you think Chiko is turning away from you while you're trying to teach him?