Seeing each other - aggression

[Jim]

What do others think about this and or your experience?

When the boys are hormonal they tolerate each other at best. Here is what happened to make me think about this and ask these questions.

They pretty much stay on opposite ends of their room with the occasional squabble when they are hormonal. It was one of those days that if one more thing went wrong I was going to go crazy. Before I left I thought, Hmmmm.... I'm going to put the boys in their cages, I didn't want to.:( Anyway, when I got home and went to let them out they were ready to really go at it. I mean they both come to the doors but are displaying big time and poking at each other through the wire. It's double wired spaced 2" apart so they can't get to one and other. They had what I call a pretty big squabble, I watched just incase, until they went to their respective ends.

So, my thoughts were that they had spent a few hours apart, in safety, looking and displaying and possibly building up aggression, courage, whatever it was towards the other one. That was the first time I had separated (caged) then in a situation like this.

I'm wondering if they couldn't have seen each other would it have been better? I have no experience other than what I said but it made me think about this. Maybe, in a general way, it would be better if two birds that were aggressive towards each other only saw the other one when they were out with the care giver. Just blocking a view wouldn't be all that hard. I'm getting long here sorry. See, I was wondering -- we all know how birds always think the other one has the better food, toy, perch, etc. especially when they aren't buddies. I read 'most' of the time too let them see each other (caged) and they will get used to the other one. If we took away the view, would it help?

Input, comments would be much appreciated.

[Shirley]

Very interesting, Jim... and I can only add this... which is far from "Macaws".

Parrotlets -- they'll fight to the death. They breed best when you have several pairs, but you don't want the pairs to see each other, only hear each other. They chatter back and forth and get all wound up and defend their mates and cages. When they SEE each other, they display big time, feathers rise up on top of their heads, and they get really threatening toward each other (not toward their mates). I never let them out of their cages together... and I've seen two males in a divided cage at a bird show begin a fight that would have ended in shredded toes and legs :eek::eek: had they not been immediately separated into completely separate cages. These were adult males, not babies.

[Jim]

Thanks Shirley. I think, 'if' there is anything to this, it would be general across species and size. Dogs or other animals that rely heavily on smell or hearing would be different, I assume. Birds would probably be more like us in that they rely on vision to interpret 'most' things. Most humans get more upset when they 'see' someone they don't like, over hearing or knowing they are around, for whatever reason. It's not bad for me to be in the same environment/building with some one I don't like if I can't see them. When I see them my mind is focused on them and not my friends or task at hand. Maybe birds are like this to some degree?

Yes the breeding thing you mention was one of the big things I thought about. Breeding birds, as far as I know, are pretty OK hearing other birds but they sure get upset when they 'see' them. Right?

Wish I had a big ole sanctuary or such so I could experiment with this idea a little.

[scotty]

Jim this is probably no help at all,but with Andrew my Tiel, he just can't stand to see me read the news paper and so he screams unmercifully untill I put it down.Maybe he see's it as a big bird i don't know, but when I wan't to sit in the family room and he starts theres no stopping him unless I partially cover his cage so he can't see me,now maybe if your birds had a towel are something in between they wouldn't get so worked up with each other.Constantly looking at something they can't get to may be upsetting to them.If they don't see each other they may go about there bussiness of eating and entertaining them selves:shrug2:
Just saying:nuts: :wub:

[Jim]

Scotty, that's what I'm going to try next year if the situation arises. Something blocking their sight of each other. I probably would have been better off leaving them out (in their room) as I always do. Hind sight is 20/20. I was just in one of those spaces and my over curiousness didn't work to well. After that first 1 or 2 mins of fussing, when I got them out, they were back to their own spaces and all was fine. I didn't separate (cage) them after that lesson when I left.

I was mainly sharing this to get thoughts or experience about multi birds even when they weren't hormonal. Guess it just bugs the crap out of me that some birds can't get along. Exploring some options or ideas that may help us and the birds.

You know this is just because they were hormonal, right? They are inseparable buddies the rest of the time.

[scotty]

I really don't know very much about Hormonal cycles and birds, my tiels are next to each other,and there both males and i have never seen any disagreements going on,but there Tiels and may have a different disposition.The only thing I notice is that Andrew swishes his tail some times ,it goes from side to side,but Tiki doesn't really pay attention :shrug: :)

[gary&chloe]

We have four, African Poicephalus. One of the male Meyers, Picasso, likes everyone. He seldom leaves his cage to visit the other birds but if he is with us and one of the other birds, he is fine.

BUT his brother, and I mean his clutch mate brother, Monet, does NOT care for our Senegal AT ALL. It is like the OK Corral at High Noon. If they are out all day, at least once during the day, they will "git it on". The Senegal, Shirra, is a female (I was told Sunday that female birds are called "hens" not females. Some people have too much time on their hands to give a dam what I call a female bird.) ANYWAY.... Monet will also get over on our female Jardine's cage and try to mate with her. He is the stud of the bird room.

No one seems to bother Chloe that I have seen. Once the four Africans had her surrounded, on the floor, and she let out a call to daddy to come get her. I went in and they were closing the circle...

All the birds are 3-9 years old, so I guess they are in their hormonal cycles.

We have another Senegal coming tonight to visit for the weekend so it will be interesting....

I was told that swishing the tail is a sign of happiness or contentment. I really don't know.