Steve's 8 mo Afr. Red Belly Story

[Shirley]

Well...... This isn't a rescue exactly, but in a way it sort of is in the sense of giving a happy home to an unhappy biting parrot.

We went to the Central Indiana Cage Bird Club Show Sunday the 10th of Apr and left two Society finches with a friend to keep, got some supplies - toys for Skyler and Tucker, food, cuttle bones, California Gold spray millet, things like that.... then stopped by a booth run by a lady I've known as an acquaintance for a few years. She sells a variety of birds, but raises mainly small birds. As I was talking with her, I noticed a bird that looked quite African to me, and since I'd been learning a lot about Cape parrots since knowing Shar and Millie, I asked her what it was. It was an African Red Bellied Parrot. I knew I'd heard of one recently, and could not for the life of me remember where. Well --- right here on BoF!!! Xakana has one! Her beautiful Dionysus! I asked a few questions about "it" and she said it was a male (wrong) and that it was hatched last July or August. I called Ginny in FL on my cell and asked her to jump on the 'net and look up the species and tell me what she could find about them. See, it was quite wild and would bite anyone who came near it.

I asked the lady to take him out so I could see it, b/c Steve has quite a wonderful way with birds, and this little guy sure needed someone special. She reached in with a large dishcloth, he screamed and bit furiously as she pulled him out, speaking softly all the while to him, and he bit hard and she dropped him on the table and he jumped to the floor and skittered away with her chasing after him. Steve said, "wait, I'll get him"

He walked along on his hands and knees (everyone cleared a wide path to watch this funny scene) and Steve sort of scooped him up gently with both hands, speaking so softly and humorously to the him all the while, and being bit like you would not believe, but keeping the gentle humor in his voice the entire time. You'd never know he was being bit so hard over and over!

The bird got away about three times, and Steve gathered him up each time, and finally put him back in his cage. She said he had been shipped up from Texas (Rick Jordan, Hill Country Aviaries) for her to finish the final weaning after he was weaned, and that he never was friendly.

Well, the last thing we needed was another parrot... where to put it, and so on. Ginny gave me as much info as she could in the meantime -- cage size (not a parrot size cage -- large cockatiel cage -- good! We had an extra over-size 'tiel cage already and it would fit on the end table right next to Steve's recliner next to the 120-gal reef tank!) and that they are fairly quiet (good -- that was important for a few reasons) very affectionate, (??), gentle, loving(??), one-person, and several other nice traits. We wondered what on Earth had happened to this birdie that had it so terrified and "bitey". The lady hadn't a clue. It lived in a room with about 20 noisy parrots, she said. Hmmmmm. From what Ginny read, it was most definitely a female, not a male as the lady insisted. (didn't matter a bit to us, but they are sexually dimorphic, so why didn't she know?) The lady came down to $250 on the price, claiming that was what she had in him.

So... we brought "her" home!

That was Sunday a day ago! I contacted Rick Jordan today and gave him the leg band info. He told me the bird was tame when it left his aviary as a weanling, and was hatched on Aug. 12, 2004, and was a female from the pics I sent. He also said it was free at that time of all diseases b/c all his eggs are hatched in incubators, and never touched by the parent birds. Also, he authored the book, African Parrots, with Jean Pattison. Impressive.

Today she spent 4 hrs on the Tree Stand in the living room exploring, and never jumped off once. So... here are the pics I took (talk about a deluge of photos! This bird does NOT mind the camera at ALL!) and they are in order. She DEFINITELY prefers Steve, and I'm not even going to try to do anything with her, as she is to be HIS special bird. He named her Michelle -- His middle name is Michael. How sweet is that! http://9.forumer.com/html/emoticons/bof/smile.gif

By the way.... During the photo shoot this afternoon -- Skyler BLURTED OUT: "Look at the camera!" He's never said that before!! He said it only once!

Xak -- We need all the info and help you want to offer! We just love this girl, and she's not agressive at all... just very "bitey", but you'll see by the pics that Steve has already done wonders with her!

Here's the site for the photo progression... just click the first image, it will enlarge, then click the arrows to move through the rest. They are in order of how they were taken.

Thanks for looking! The orange under her wings will disappear as she grows up. And yes, regardless how the ending photos look, she does still bite.

http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/redbelly/index.html

[Xakana]

Warning, LONG POST (sorry!):

Definitely a female! The orange will not disappear under her wings if her diet is vitamin rich. She may even develop random orange feathers on her head (at least, Dionysus does) and on her wing shoulders.

Dionysus is 100% hand tame and still bites. They're very beaky birds (and the sooner you get used to the bite, the better--it will eventually stop, but she will probably still like to 'beak' all over you--not biting, just grabbing a lot, but when overexcited, bites still happen).

The first terrible twos is the worst for them in terms of behavior. They are VERY prone to being bullies. They have to be watched around other birds (Jack is the only one that Dionysus cannot seem to bully, even big Shadow runs in terror from her, but Jack's infatuated with her and as much of a bully as she is). They are not one person birds--they will just PREFER one person. That does not mean that the other human flock members can't form a bond, but they will have to work harder for it.

I have to admit your hubby has hands of steel! I would rather get bit by a cockatoo than Dionysus! Her bite HURTS more than any other I've suffered. It can't cause a lot of injury (just some torn skin, really) but inch for inch, it's painful! She was my first baby, adopted from a pet store and I had no idea what I was getting into! They definitely are quiet (their loudest noise isn't as loud as my quaker's softest, lol) and can be very good talkers (Dionysus has a very extensive vocabulary, but she mumbles a lot--it's like learning to hear a baby's words). I had to get used to Dionysus' bite pretty quick. She almost never bites me now, except during nail trims (which she can't abide), but everyone else gets random bites.

I thought she hated me at first because when I got her, there was almost no good information on red-bellies and I had to get most of my information from Senegals. The first bird forum I ever joined helped me immensely to understanding WHY she was behaving like she was and our relationship improved almost immediately. This is why I love bird forums! If it hadn't been for one, I would have rehomed her, not konwing any better http://9.forumer.com/html/emoticons/sad.gif I still hate to think of that! I can't imagine what my life would be like if I had given up (my hubby helped a ton, too) and didn't have my fids in my life. There's a good chance I wouldn't still be here. Dionysus is the light of my life now and often the reason I even get up in the morning (I suffer from clinical depression and she helps me more than any doctor has ever been able to, she has really saved my life).

They are much like Senegals. A good book to have is "Guide to the Senegal Parrot and it's Family" by Mattie Sue Athan and Dianalee Deter. Now, this book DID say that red-bellies like to have a 'hide' or be covered and that was the FARTHEST From the truth with Dionysus. She suffers night frights and cannot handle the dark at all. But that just may have come from growing up in a pet store, where it's never completely dark. She damaged her feathers in her terror (wing and tail) the first time I covered her. I tried it one more time with the same result and have never deprived her of light since.

Red-bellies are naturally almost too heavy to fly, so be careful when trimming wings. They are very easily over-trimmed. In the wild they spend more time playing and climbing in trees than flying, so they're not great fliers. Dionysus was so badly overtrimmed when I got her (they will be able to 'hop' and gain a little altitude as long as they have secondariy wing feathers--so the idiot who clipped her cut into hers) that it took a year for her to grow enough back to keep herself from plummeting when she fell.

They're very social (at least Dionysus is) and can be as needy as a cockatoo in terms of attention and affection once they decide they like you. Dionysus is fond of several of my friends and will stalk them through the house for attention if they don't immediately get to scritches! I once went three days without handling her (I was sick and afraid she'd catch it) and she stopped eating and sat on a perch in the back of her cage, sulking and deeply depressed. It took me over a week (and a vet visit to make sure she wasn't sick) to get her back to he normal self! She was healthy, just depressed. Ever since, I've just been very careful when I'm sick about keeping her close, but not exposed any more than I have to.

She's very industrious--if she wants something taken apart, she WILL take it apart. She once got my friend's watch face disassembled in 15 seconds flat (she had played with this watch before, I guess she remembered it). So I have to watch all my jewelry with her and only have 2 earrings that come out now (the rest have been replaces with jewelry one must unscrew or open with pliers, although this was also partly just me using appropriate jewelry in my piercings, especially since I can't handle anything but titanium or 316LVM implant-grade surgical stainless steel--almost the highest grade of steel there is--after that, they're numbered weird). I still have to tighten the barbells (the ones that screw in) after she plays with them.

My husband got past Dionysus' biting by making it a game. He plays "got your beak" with her (note: this game does end in nipped fingers occassionally) where he would tap her beak and get his finger away without getting bit. She's thinks it's a great game and tries to initiate it with other people, but I'm the only one brave enough because I know she doesn't bite during it anymore. She just 'grabs'. I was lucky that the head of the bird department at my bird store is a bird lover (helps with rescue and everything and keeps their bird section in very good health and high standards of living) and taught Dionysus the command "gentle". It's a VERY important command with her. I sometimes have to repeat it, but she understands that it means she's hurting me and stops. She easily succumbs to guilt trips (she bites, I say "Why did you bite me?"--softly--giving her a 'hurt' look and she ducks her head, stops biting and pouts for a while, then begs for scritches to know there's no hard feelings). They're very smart (she and the African grey have conversations in African bird talk, lol--"click, whistle, click clock, mama, cool!" and learn new phrases from each other). This is all with a just 2 year old baby. She only hit puberty in February (a little early, many don't hit it until 3 or even 4).

A few things about body language that's different from most birds: When Di's eyes pin, that's a GOOD sign. Her way of saying it's okay to pet her is a)her eyes pin, her cheek feathers fluff and move forward and she clicks her beak (this looks threatening, but always means she wants lovin') or b)her eyes pin and she curls her neck down so you have easy access becuase she either really likes you or has decided you're too dumb to get her other signals (I know she thinks I'm dumb, becuase she laughs at me when I do dumb things, lol). Usually, sitting still and not responding to you means you should just leave her alone before the almighty beak flies, LOL. It's best to ask her what she wants, she'll be glad to tell you and it improves her mood to be talked to.

---continued next post...

[Xakana]

...continued from previous post...

Now she's moody as anything, but hubby, who she actually hated when she first came home with us, was the one she chose to ask to make eggs with her (full display dance and food offerings). But he rebuffed her because he didn't want to be 'fed' and now she seeks him out to bite whenever she's in a bad mood. Very much a teenage girl!

Not only are red-bellies quiet, though, they LIKE quiet. Loud noises and fast moving beings (children, animals) incur Dionysus' wrath and she WILL chew them out very vocally while flapping angrily and lunging if they come close enough. She hated children for a long time because my neice (who we watched 11 hours a day, 4-6 days a week before she started school) was very loud and tended to make fast movements.

Dionysus will still decide to randomly bite people, as if reminding them all that even if mommy's the head of the flock (very important to establish, you do NOT want to be an underling to a red-belly!) and daddy's slightly beneath mommy, but still above her (meaning 'daddy' gets occassionally challenged), she comes next in line and nobody better forget it!

Well, I'm sure I could write a book here, but I think I'll stop so if you DID read this far, you can get some relief for your eyes!!

If you have ANY other questions, don't hesitate to ask! I won't have to write this much again, lol, since I won't be covering this many bases.

Oh, one last note, Dionysus continued growing and gaining length until she was about 15 months old. She's in a very large cockatiel cage, but I never shut her door. Being cagebound was part of her agression. Once I stopped shutting her door (not something I recommend if you have large birds or cats/dogs who can't be trusted.. even if they can, it's best to err on the side of caution, I just know taht my cats live in fear of Dionysus and are so well trained with the birds now that Serephina got buzzed by a wild robin and didn't even blink, although I wouldn't trust either cat with my finches, even in their cage!) a lot of her biting stopped. So if yours lives in a cage for more than 12 hours a day, then I suggest a cage that is at least 3'wx2'dx3'h, because these birds are very active acrobats and must remain very active because of their heavy nature--it could easily turn to fat.

They require a LOT of attention, a lot of toys (it's best to give them toys they can totally demolish, as this makes them very happy--Dionysus loves popsticle sticks, shredder and bird pinatas the best) and a lot of patience, but I think they're the most wonderful bird in the world! I highly reccomend them as VERY good companions! They really aren't difficult at all once you understand them. http://9.forumer.com/html/emoticons/bof/heart.gif http://9.forumer.com/html/emoticons/bof/heart.gif http://9.forumer.com/html/emoticons/bof/heart.gif http://9.forumer.com/html/emoticons/bof/heart.gif http://9.forumer.com/html/emoticons/bof/heart.gif

Oh--yes, one LAST note (I promise!!) Caiques and Hawkheads are both a good template for understanding the red-belly. Just like Joe said, they nip as a normal part of play, never really get over it (you have to) and have the jeckly/hyde thing going on. Like hawkheads, their body language can be confusing and everything you've previosly learned about parrots can be tossed out usually.

And Michelle is beautiful. A dark eyering red-belly (which is the norm, Dionysus is a light eyering red-belly, the rarer of the two) and a good, smooth beak (Dionysus was a beak mutilator, so I always love seeing smooth beaked birds, lol). Nutriberries (the fruit are best for RBPs) are great for keeping the color bright in their feathers. It makes them shine with an inner glow. I use nutriberries as Dionysus' full seed intake (she eays zupreem pellets because she is the pickiest eater I've ever seen--a starve before touching something she doesn't like type--and I am still just happy that after over a YEAR she started eating those! her fave veggies are corn, broccoli and potato, but won't eat any but the corn unless I'm eating, too).

~Xak

[Shirley]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Xak, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you writing all this, and I know I'm going to be asking you LOTS of questions and sharing LOTS of stories from here on!!

We are both just IN LOVE with Michelle, and she's the only bird we've had that BITES us to pieces, but you know, she really likes Steve, I can see it in her eyes. She bites him, and sometimes hard, but not like the first day or two. And now she even will step from his hand to mine a time or two. Today we took her outside for the first time and she LOVED walking in the grass and eating dandelion blossoms! She also loved climbing in the Maple tree, which all our birds play in during the summer.

Now... Holly, our African Grey who will be two in June, seems to know that Michelle is African... or something like that. She clucks to her. They don't run from each other. They don't "charge" at each other. Holly does not accept any of our other birds, but show some interest in Michelle. Is this my imagination? Is it possible they would ever be "friends"? or safe with one another under supervision?

She is out of her cage a LOT -- with Steve on his recliner next to her cage, on the parrot tree stand, in the bedroom on the bed, and he's going to build her a tree stand to put in the bedroom that will fit through the doorway and can be moved room to room or outdoors. Yes, she's an acrobat, we can tell that! I believe she hasn't had much opportunity for play her first 8 months.

Where did Dionysous come from? Michelle came from Hill Country Aviaries, Rick Jordan, Texas, as a weanling, but I got her from a lady here in Indiana, where she was shipped, and supposedly wild as ever from day one, although Rick Jordan told me via email she was "fairly tame" when she left him. Where are you from, Xak?

She has light at night b/c we leave plenty dim nightlights on for all the birds, and her cage is in the living room next to the 120-reef tank and Steve's recliner. Skyler (RB2) and Holly (CAG) go to the basement to sleep at night. Michelle stays put with Cheerio, our canary, and the Gouldian finches. (three cages, none next to each other)

I think Michelle sleeps fine where she is, but the large parrots needed better sleep so they sleep in the basement 9:30-9:30.

It's nice to hear she may keep the orange under her wings. And yes, she has orange tips on her shoulders.

Here she is in the yard and on the tree:




http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Michelle/215.jpg

Holly and Michelle
http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Michelle/253.jpg

http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Michelle/274.jpg

http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Michelle/280.jpg

Wing clip:
http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Michelle/wingclip277.jpg

~ Shirley

[Xakana]

And here was my follow up post:

:thanks: *blush* I tend to overpost sometimes, and I realized I had a little minibook there, LOL!

Okay, so to answer a few more things:
Is this my imagination? Is it possible they would ever be "friends"? or safe with one another under supervision?

An african grey could very easily accidentally kill Michelle. That's not to say they can't be allowed around each other with supervision, just make sure that Holly can't get her beak on Michelle faster than you can rescue her. I've had to take several bites from Dionysus to save other birds from her wrath. Senegals and Red-bellies are famous bullies, LOL, known for terrorizing larger birds. It's not unheard of for a MACAW to be terrified of one. Shadow, my CAG, is scared of Dionysus because she has attacked him. She seldom charges another bird (in fact, seldom 'charges' in any way I've see other birds do unless she thinks her target will leave before she can get in a bite). She usually walks up to them, looking flirtatious and sweet, then goes for the toes of larger birds. Shadow has never tried to hurt her, but she got his toe the first time she did this 'see how sweet I am' tactic and now he screams and flies if she comes within a wingspan of him. They have never been left unsupervised, but can't even be on the playgym at the same time anymore. She was my first bird, though, so all the incoming birds must answer to her, even though I keep her cage low. It doesn't help with her! Michelle may need some time to feel comfortable bullying, or she may just have a sweet, welcoming personality. Either way, closely supervise their interactions and they may very well be friends. Di and Shadow LOVE 'talking' to each other, but cannot interact safely on any other level.


I believe she hasn't had much opportunity for play her first 8 months.

Poor girl! When I got my quaker, he didn't really know what to do with toys. Dionysus showed him and he went from never playing or climbing (he had lived most of his known life in a shut, too-small cage) to being very active and occassionally acrobatic himself. Don't be surprised if Michelle teaches your other birds a thing or two!

Where did Dionysous come from?

Her band says Georgia. I bought her at a local Petco (despite the store's reputation, ours does not follow the norm for the corp and was a much better store than our Petsmart when I purchased Dionysus) in Kansas City, Missouri (very near where I am, though I don't live in KC, it's within 5 minutes driving). They had had her since she was about a month old and I bought her when she was 4 months old.

I got her from a lady here in Indiana, where she was shipped, and supposedly wild as ever from day one, although Rick Jordan told me via email she was "fairly tame" when she left him.

It is possible she mistook the personality of the baby red-belly, which is very nippy for 'wildness'. They require quite a bit of work to handle the nippiness down. I don't get nipped on a daily or even weekly basis anymore, although since Di hit puberty, hubby has been getting bit quite a bit more again.


Michelle stays put with Cheerio, our canary, and the Gouldian finches. (three cages, none next to each other)

Dionysus is interested in my finches, but only passingly. She seems to think their tiny size makes them beneath her notice, lol. She used to make zebra finch nosies when I first met her, it was one of the things that indeared me to her, as I enjoy z. finch beeps.

I think Michelle sleeps fine where she is, but the large parrots needed better sleep so they sleep in the basement 9:30-9:30.

Dionysus never seems to have problems with lack of sleep. If she's tired, she lets you know and takes a nap. I know that my schedule is too random for her to sleep a good 12 hour night (not that she sleeps much at night--I'm rather noctunal, so she tends to be as well, though her favorite time of day is 5am-7am).

Those are beautiful pictures of Michelle! Watch out for maple, some sites list it as toxic for birds. As long as they're not chewing on it, I'm sure it's fine. Goodness knows birds look good in trees!

And her wing clip looks fine. Just make sure she doesn't 'thud' when she hits the ground--that's the best way to tell with red-bellies. Good weight for them tends to be between 120-170, but you'll get an idea what Michelle should be at just by feel. Dionysus is 139 and that seems to be her ideal weight. She started at 126 when I first had her checked (she was almost a year old then). She has some problems with vitamin deficiencies that seem to have pretty much gone away since she stopped snubbing pellets (she was almost 2 years old before I could convince her that they weren't poison, lol) and integrated them into her diet.

Here you can see Jack sharing his cage (and momma scritches) with Dionysus (taken just a few days ago):

http://img188.echo.cx/img188/4987/jackdiscritches9bh.jpg
http://img8.echo.cx/img8/5471/jackdigrin23ak.jpg
http://img119.echo.cx/img119/7951/jackdigrin5uf.jpg

Jack and Di grab beaks a lot, I watch and see that it doesn't become violent (sometimes it's just sweet kisses/beak grooming, sometimes it's beak boxing) but this seems to be how they establish who gets the prize (perch, toy, etc.) at that moment. Jack almost always concedes to Dionysus, who (despite the perspective in the pictures) outweighs him by 31 grams and is bigger around and lengthwise (excluding tail). Jack and Di allow each other on their cages and share pretty well--being the only parrots in this house that interact well with each other (Sara and Shadow can be on the playgym at the same time without any problems, but they ignore each other totally; and the finches are not parrots, lol, though they are brothers who care for each other and inteact fine).

It's a matter of watching out when Dionysus decides to be too bossy and pushes Jack off the playgym (which case he yells and runs to me "Mom, she pushed me!" in quaker issuing from his beak). They act like siblings (squabbling, chattering happily with each other, being affectionate, rejecting affection) although it's clear that Jack has has some more... lascivious thoughts. Thankfully, Dionysus was too young to care or understand and now that she is older, she likes to tease him, acting like she'll initiate something, then pushing him off the playgym (she even once went so far as to dance for him, say "Good boy!" and act very receptive, only to trot away and laugh--literally--at him when he was done displaying for her).

She's the birdie of my eye, despite (and partly because of) her naughty nature :D

~Xak

[Shirley]

Hi Xak! Thank you so much for moving this over here! :woot:

I just couldn't get it all done, but am really glad you did!

I love your pics, and really appreciate all your info! :thanx:

Michelle seems to have hit a plateau on the friendliness .. stepping up, coming out, biting less hard, but not getting more eager or less wild yet. hmmm.
Steve is just patiently continuing what he's been doing.
:heart:

[Jean]

This is very informative. I am sure all the members will really appreciate all the effort you both put into this link. and :thanx: for sharing all the beautiful pics.:goodjob:

[chacha]

Wow Shirley. I can't believe you have a Red-Bellied. She is beautiful. I can't wait to hear more about her. Congrats.

[Shirley]

Shar, you were definitely "with us" when we were considering bring her home at that show. I believe if you'd been there, you'd have taken her home with you. My reading about Capes after learning so much from you was a huge influence... my heart just went out to her, and she was so afraid and wild. She's coming around to Steve... he is so in love with her... and he really needed her to bond with, and she loves him to... another story for another time... :) Thanks, Shar!

[chacha]

Thats great to hear. She will open up even more soon and be a wonderful bird. I love the Pois. I will have another some day.

[Xakana]

It took months for Dionysus to move past the first 'terrible twos' phase. And she was handled daily before even coming home with me. Just keep up what you're doing, Michelle will come around before you know it. From what I've observed with Dionysus, she usually takes sudden, big steps so that one day she's displaying a bad habit, the next, it's gone--no warning or small transitions, sometimes.

The rewards once you move past it, though... Doinysus melts my heart every day. There are times when I'm nearly in tears from her displays of affection. She's come from being a bird who would bite me to try to manipulate me, so hard I wouldn't be able to use the finger she got again for hours, to a sweetheart who seldom bites me anymore, unless she's seriously distressed (such as having the quick nipped in a nail trimming, or when she broke her first blood feather the other day--I managed to get it dealt with without getting bit, but it wasn't for lack of her trying!) and instead uses that beak to kiss me as often as she can.

~Xak:heart:

[Shirley]

Thanks, Xak! All you info is very helpful and encouraging! She came out on her own last night and stepped up to Steve! :heart: