Sammy and his new Aviator Harness!

[Shirley]

Sammy just got this today! Isn't he quite the guy about town?! :dance: :cool:




http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Baby-Grey/AviatorHarness-8-11-06/Sammy-Harness8-11-06-140.jpg

http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Baby-Grey/AviatorHarness-8-11-06/Sammy-Harness8-11-06-166.jpg

I thought he was flying to Steve, below, but he had loftier ideas!
The harness elastic pulled him into a gentle circle.
http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Baby-Grey/AviatorHarness-8-11-06/Sammy-Harness8-11-06-62.jpg

Determined to go somewhere!
http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Baby-Grey/AviatorHarness-8-11-06/Sammy-Harness8-11-06-68.jpg

He LOVES to eat flowers!
http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Baby-Grey/AviatorHarness-8-11-06/Sammy-harness-flowers158.jpg

http://shirleymorgan.com/misc/Baby-Grey/AviatorHarness-8-11-06/Sammy-harness-flowers155.jpg

The sun is making his eyes look a lot lighter than they really are - first pic.

[Jean]

Oh Shirley, Sammy is growing up two fast. He's so beauriful! :wub: :heart: :heart:

[Shirley]

Thank you Jean... yes, the time has flown!! I could do this 100 times over! :dance::heart:

[Jean]

What brand harness is that?

[Shirley]

It's the Aviator Harness, like the ones Jim uses when he flies his birds. The same one that Bucc has.
It's super easy to put on... and I hope Holly will one day accept it.

Get it here (http://theparrotuniversity.com/harness/harness.html)

In my experience, I've noticed their sizes run large on some and small on others... like the poicephalus size (XS) fits a cockatiel, but not Michelle or Play-Doh - the loop won't go over their heads. And this one (M) is a tad large, but it works just fine.

[Shirley]

I also have this harness and really like it a lot. Dr. C uses these as well as the Aviator.

Fred's Bird Harness (http://fredbird.net/products.html)

And I can't remember the name of the other harness we have... it's the red one he's wearing in his first baby photo w/harness in this forum.

[Jean]

I wish I would of trained Elvie when he was young to a harness. I purchased one for him when he was about 6 yrs old and no way would he allow it to be put on him. It was a fight from the get go so I keep him clipped because we go outside so much of the time.

[beebeeann]

::gasp::

Gorgeous pics, Shirley. He's beautiful!

I should really get Bruno a harness...he's not getting any younger or easier to train!! :)

Thanks for sharing them! <3

[Ang]

Sammy looks great in his new harness, he semms to like it as well.


Sonic my CAG, is 14 years old and has never been in a harness, I'm wondering if it would be possible to get her into one, has anyone any suggestions, before I go out and buy one?

[Jean]

I should really get Bruno a harness...he's not getting any younger or easier to train!! :)

Excellent idea! :highfive: The earlier you start them in a harness the easier and better they accept it.

[Sue]

Great pic's Shirley:heart: I can't believe how he's grown. He's adorable, I love him:wub:

[parrotgirl]

Oh my hasn't he grown,


Isn't the harness just great, I like the idea of the elastic leash gently turning them around to us when they are flying. Bucc really does love it. He is sat here with me at the moment and when he saw Sammy in his harness he was saying "oh look Bucc go out" :doh:

I ordered mine from the same place, and it came a lot quicker from the US than a friend got hers from the UK. Mine was cheaper and no shipping. How brilliant is that. :agree:

[Flock Mom]

He is absolutely gorgeous Shirley :heart: He has grown up all too fast hasn't he.

He looks like he's having fun out there flying around like a big boy....I just can't get over how fast time goes by, and I bet you can't either!

Thanks for sharing :D

[Shirley]

Holly won't wear one, either, but I'm not giving up on her.

Consider this: Merlin was quite "wild" and "fearful" at the age of 6 or 7 when Dr. C rescued him. He was terrified of fly swatters. He didn't trust her or anyone else. Now he's wearing harnesses easy as pie, and has no fear of fly swatters. She did it with clicker training, which is 100% PR (positive re-enforcement) and patience, and maybe she'll explain more here. I'm going to try more with Holly w/clicker training - She broke it down to baby steps for me and I just need to take the time to do it.

Never say never.

[Shirley]

My main regret is that I wish I would have known a good harness to get before buying all the wrong ones! Don't go near a feather teather! They are the worst of the worst, and certainly not designed wtih the bird in mind.

Fred's Bird harnesses and The Aviator are my favorites for ease of putting on and for comfort for the bird.

[parrotgirl]

Oh the Feather Tether, I had one of those for Bucc, (its the one that is done most often here, have seen a few more in recent times) and he hated it, wouldn't let me near him with it. It is so heavy and awkward for the bird and owner alike.


I've not heard of Freds Bird Harness before but the link looks pretty good.

[Sue]

Like Jean and Ang said Toto has never been in a harness, I nearly bought a feather tether but decided against it, maybe i'll give this a go.

[Ang]

Hello,

When I had my B&G I got a Freds Bird harness for him, It was ok, but the only thing that I did not like about it was the way the lead clipped onto the harness.

It clipped onto the the front of the harness with a dog lead clip, of which my B&G found easy to undo.

I was so worried about him getting away the harness has not been used for a while now.

I would of much preferred to use the Aviator harness had I known about it.

[Jean]

Holly won't wear one, either, but I'm not giving up on her.

Consider this: Merlin was quite "wild" and "fearful" at the age of 6 or 7 when Dr. C rescued him. He was terrified of fly swatters. He didn't trust her or anyone else. Now he's wearing harnesses easy as pie, and has no fear of fly swatters. She did it with clicker training, which is 100% PR (positive re-enforcement) and patience, and maybe she'll explain more here. I'm going to try more with Holly w/clicker training - She broke it down to baby steps for me and I just need to take the time to do it.

Never say never.

I would love to have the success Dr.C had harnessing Merlin. Elvie didn't want anything to do with his harness. I didn't try him in a harness until he was 6 and no way would he even consider being near it. I don't know why he refused it so much when I can do almost most anything else with him. He doesn't see other birds in harness either. Maybe, that would help him realize it's not that bad.

[Ellen K. Cook, DVM]

clicker training, which is 100% PR (positive re-enforcement) and patience, and maybe she'll explain more here. I'm going to try more with Holly w/clicker training - She broke it down to baby steps for me and I just need to take the time to do it.

Never say never.


Hmmm, sounds like another article-Harnessing the Wild Psittacine :rofl: Shirley-those photos are gorgeous-you know how I love the ones of the birds flying and these of Sammy are stunning.

BTW, thanks again for keeping my babies at Camp Morgan for Wayward Cockatoos last week. They are happy to be home, but they really miss all the spoiling they got from Steve and Troy :wub:

[Ginny]

Shirley

Sammy looks great in his new harness. I love the black on him.
Well we are about to get a storm so I have to get off of here. Give Sammy a kiss from me.

[Jim]

Those photos are too cool! :dance: Sammy is doing so good Shirley. As you know I love photos of birds flying and Sammy sure is making me smile.:) :) :)

[Jim]

Hi Ang

I used to use the Kaylor Harness (Fred Bird) and what I did was tie a piece of webbing (about 24") on the harness with a loop on both ends so the clip wasn't up where they could unhook it. I think I got the webbing from an old camera strap. Here are older photos of Nino and Teo where you can see what I did.

http://www.thebirdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2186

As for teaching an older bird to wear a harness, it can be done with clicker training and patience.

[Ang]

Hi Jim,

Thank you for sharing your photo's, I see what you have done. Unfortunately my ex-partner is now the owner of the B&G and I'm not sure what his plans are for him.

As I have said in an earlier message Sonic my CAG has never been in a harness, she is 14 years old now, but I am very tempted to try the Aviator Harness with her. In hope she will accepted it, if I am slow with the training.

:thanx: again.

[Jim]

Hi Ang

Yep going slow, small steps, seems to work best. Ya know we don't talk about this much, and this is more for everyone, not directed at you. I was talking to Shirley the other day and afterwards I got to thinking about what we talked about.

I think this is important or a good place to start with harness training. The bird should let you put your hand (no harness) over it's head much like if you had the harness, lift it's wings, and generally let you touch it all over with no fuss. If the bird won't let me do this he certainly isn't *willingly* going to let me do this, which is required, with the harness in my hand.

It's still work, don't get me wrong. Like with Jean's Elvie. He lets her do anything to him but just doesn't care for the harness, but at least she knows he is rejecting the harness and not the touching.

[Sue]

Well you got me thinking too, Toto will let me lift his wings and he does "wings up" on command when he sees the spray bottle which he loves.


Jim do you think I could use the bottle as an aid to harness training.

He hates the clicker, goes into a real strop when he hears it, so I stopped using it.

[Shirley]

I can touch Holly all over easily, left her wings (she's a little reluctant about that compared to all our other birds) run my hands over her head... but the harness is something else entirely... and if I do get it over her head, then the snap or buckle takes too long, and by then she's got her feet tangle up in it or something else goes haywire, and we can't finish... I haven't tired the Aviator on her yet.

[Jim]

Sue, Yep... and I like your thinking here.:) To me that's what we need to do, find what works for each of our birds. If the bottle works that's great, it would be win-win and from what I'm reading fun for both of you.

[Jim]

Shirley, Yes I know Holly lets you touch her and I wasn't using our conversation as point here. If you don't mind, what had me thinking was when we talked about Holly not liking things over her head, like being in a swing. That was a thing with Nino too when it came to the harness. He was OK with it low but when it started over his head (higher) he didn't like it. I worked on having the harness on my wrist and cupping my hand over his beak/head.

Guess I should say this too before it gets confused. My birds use their beak appropriately on me. Like I assume happens with most of us when we're giving head rubs or preening them. They beak our finger/hand to let us know to stop. Well when they did this while harnessing them I just stopped and didn't say no bite (which I don't use anyway) or anything. In my mind they were in control, I know that may sound weird but that's what I wanted, which build trust. I also think this made them more willing to try, since experience taught them they could stop the process when ever they felt like it.

[Sue]

Thanks for the input Jim.


I like your idea of taking it slowly and not pushing it if they want to stop.

I think I will try slowly too, maybe lifting his wings more and making it fun.
He loves to burrow into things so if I can make him see the harness in the same light as say a towel or his birdy hut, (remember he dragged paper in there till he wasn't visible)........hmm he love paper towels too, now you've got me thinking I have a lot of ideas to try!

[Jim]

You're more than welcome Sue.

Ya know what... There are many times we can teach or strengthen a behavior any time they are out or interacting with us. I mean if we just watch, like what you are telling me about the things Toto likes, we can take advantage of the moment. Here's one example. They both love to fly over and be on my shoulder when I dry dishes, the silverware is a BIG reinforcer for them. OK you want the fork, let me touch your beak. You want the fork, here it is in the towel.... see the towel didn't hurt you it was fun and you got the fork. I had to laugh when you talked about the paper towels too. They love napkins. Same thing, you want the napkin, here it is behind the harness.

I know I say treat but most of the time I try to say reward, which is one in the same. I truly believe if we observe what is rewarding to then we can use that at that moment for even the littlest things. The communication/understanding starts and things just get better and better.

I know I'm getting long here... wonder why Toto hates the clicker? I will say this about my boys. They are the opposite, I have to be careful not to start if I don't have time. I mean once they start doing things and hear the click it snowballs into all the things they can do to hear the click and be rewarded. Really hearing the click has become reinforcing.

[Shirley]

[QUOTE]Shirley, Yes I know Holly lets you touch her and I wasn't using our conversation as point here. If you don't mind, what had me thinking was when we talked about Holly not liking things over her head, like being in a swing. That was a thing with Nino too when it came to the harness.....

I was just comparing that Holly allows me to do all the things you were sharing with Ang -- and that I still can't get the harness on her... and the rare time I can finally get the loop over her head while holding her beak shut, so no, she doesn't "let" me do that, then she's fine and the new battle is the clumsy tiny snap to undo and clip on... or the other harness that has a buckle to deal with... and maybe the Aviator will be easier... haven't tried it on her yet...

[Ginny]

Taco doesn't like the harness. If I cover her eyes I can get it on her but if she sees the leash she will get all mad and bite it or bite me if I have it in my hand close to her. I don't want to just give it to her and let her chew on it to get use to it because it would be just strings but she just hates it. Once I cover her eyes and get the harness on and can keep the leash behind her where she doesn't see it she is ok.

[Shirley]

I don't think "seeing" it makes any difference... they still hate it or not. Ours lay on the coffee table in front of everyone. Holly just isn't going to "wear" something that she is used to seeing... but once it's on her, she's totally fine with it, totally. But that was last summer, and getting it on her was still a royal production.

[Sue]

wonder why Toto hates the clicker? I will say this about my boys. They are the opposite, I have to be careful not to start if I don't have time. I mean once they start doing things and hear the click it snowballs into all the things they can do to hear the click and be rewarded. Really hearing the click has become reinforcing.

Jim, I don't know why he hates the clicker,as we don't know his background, we don't know if anyones done anything bad that involves the clicker:shrug:

At least we know no ones done anything bad with a water bottle, he absolutely loves it!!

Ok this morning before I started work, .... usual morning ritual before he shares breakfast with us...
I enter room , as soon as he sees me he goes down to the floor and waits for his morning cuddle, for some reason he has to go down on the floor for this , perch won't do.
He had a cuddle so I took this opportunity to start, while cuddling I just lifted his wings a little, each in turn he didn't resist but I still only did it a little. I got the water bottle and said "wings up" he lifted his wings really high so I gave him a good spray lots of "good boy"s and let him drink from the bottle (he loves to do this while I just spray ever so gently). I put the bottle down and gave him more cuddles and lifted his wings again higher this time and he was loving it. Looks like i've taken the first step:highfive:

[Shirley]

Way to go, Sue! That sounds great!

One thing I must say... even the smaller birds I've put in harnesses, they don't fight it once it's ON them. I was afraid an unwilling bird would freak out once it was on. Not so. Just "tolerate it" or do nothing as though it's not there. Sometimes getting it off is difficult, like with Holly... she didn't seem to understand, I'm taking this off of you! :funny:

[Jim]

Alright Sue and Toto! That's great. :emot-danc Sounds like 'good boy' works just fine. It's what I use most of the time, my mouth is always with me.:) What I like about the clicker is it's so precise and the timing can be dead on with a little practice.

Not to sway from harness training but it does kind of apply since we are teaching a behavior. Using the same type of strategy I have taught, well they have learned, that there is no need to bite me or nip. These things don't need worked on in a 'training session', although they can be. They can and do learn all the time they are with us. When ever they wanted something, say a napkin, fork, bite of my sandwich, etc. I would ask for a kiss, hello, head bobb, etc. We can't know what they are thinking that's for sure but we can come to a conclusion with experience and observation.

They have learned that kissing, hello, head bobb, any little thing they can do, will get what they want. No need to bite to get their way since the good behaviors work much better at getting their way. We all know they will go to any length to get what the want, so teaching them that kissing is the best way to get what they want works great for me.

Not saying they won't bite if I push them, don't read them or if they are over amped - excited. They certainly will and in my book have ever right as a bird to do so. That's an easy fix. Don't push them, keep myself out of harms way when excited and reinforce an alternate behavior.

Good job Sue! Keep us updated.

[Sue]

Thanks Jim, I may try the clicker with the water bottle as he sees that as a good thing. Which order do I need to do it in:confused: lift wings....gets spray reward and clicker at the same time as the reward???sorry i'm confusing myself now:funny:

[Jim]

I have to run, be back later, but maybe we could talk about 'desensitizing'. That's what we are trying to do with the harness. It's what we do for a lot of things like new toys, socialization, even step-up.

I'm sure Dr C would have good input if she has the time.:)

Sue, I saw your post as I posted this. We can talk when I get back, Kay.:)

[parrotgirl]

Way to go Toto and Sue, that is great news.

[Ang]

Thanks for the input Jim and Shirley,


If Sonic does not like the idea of the harness then that's fine, I don't want to
push her into something that she does not want to do.

I felt it would just be nice for her to have some freedom outside, but outside of her cage.

Thanks again both.

[Sue]

Jim, I have got Toto used to the clicker, I clicked while giving him his favourite food and he was fine. Hope I didn't do wrong.

[Jim]

Cool Sue! In my book you did great!:thumbup: That's exactly what I do to get birds used to the clicker. We do pet sitting as you know and that's just what I do with birds and even some dogs. I can usually get them to stay in the back of the gage in one or two visits so it's win-win for me and the bird. I don't get bitten and they aren't stressed. Sometimes I wish I had more time to spend with them or even let the owners see how good their 'bitting birds' really are when they understand what you want then to do.

I love it, you and Toto are going to start a journey that may really surprise you.:D

[Shirley]

Awesome Sue!

desired behavior followed by immediate click (clicker is in hand and ready) followed by immediate "Good Boy!" and Treat.. all very quickly. Pretty soon they know the click means they did good and a verbal praise and/or treat is coming right away.

[Jean]

That is Fantastic Sue!!! You go Toto!!! :woot:

[SadennaAndFlock]

I keep hearing about these harness and alot of people like them alot better than the feather teather...been really tempted to order one and see how it goes for our grey or maybe our mini macaw....anyone used on on a smaller bird say caique or senegal size??

[Sue]

Saddenna I wondered the same about small birds, although Ollie is totally tame an loves being handles, I'm not sure he would handle the harness.

[Shirley]

We put one on Tucker 'tiel, and it was borderline heavy for him. It would work for taking him around with us if we were inclined to do so, but he can't fly very smoothly with it. He fit the supposed "Senegal" size, which does not fit our Senegal or Red-belly. It's too small, it's an XS Aviator harness.

Anyone who judges a harness by the feather tether would have to try any of the other kinds... a feather tether is so bad it doesn't even qualify as a harness imo. I'd give mine away but that would be cruel to the receiver!

[parrotgirl]

a feather tether is so bad it doesn't even qualify as a harness imo. I'd give mine away but that would be cruel to the receiver!


I second that opinion

Way to go Sue and Toto.

[Sue]

Thanks Peta.

I also heard the feather tether's weren't very good.