Cages

[amazing greys]

I'm looking into a 40in, just wondering input on if I should go with square with playtop or dome w/out playtop.

The square I like, looks like Akeela's and Sinbad's only bigger.

[Shirley]

I was a huge advocate of dome-top cages.... until I finally got a playtop cage. Now I much prefer the playtop cages... and everyone has one except for Michelle, (Redbelly) and she flies over to others' playtops! :funny:

Shelby (BE2) loved to sleep in the dome of her cage... but the other birds use their playtops. Holly doesn't play on hers. She just sits there watching... and waiting for me to come get her so she can play with me.

[Shirley]

Whoa! Are you getting a Macaw?? Just saw which forum this was in!! Oh wow! How cool!!!! :clap:

[amazing greys]

ROFLOL Shirley :p


I really think one would fit in our family, expecially one raised from a baby :D Oh yeah, I'm workin on hubby, lol and I know what works, how'd ya think I got my others, roflol I really think he would love having a B&G. Just need to go visit with the breeder and see how her babies are and when one would be available.


I agree with a playtop, just wondering if it was a good idea with a larger bird such as a Macaw. I would never opt for a playtop for a Too.

I like the dome cuz they have more head space, but if they open (which most I've see do) is way high up and awkward, and would need a chair to get him down. So a normal one (like Akeela & Sinbad's) seem better to hang out on.

[Jim]

Yep Ditto what Shirley said.

The only thing I might suggest you think about is the size. I imagine s/he would be out a lot but Macaws like to stretch those wings if they can. Even when they do that morning one wing one leg together stretch they need some room. If you have the room and funds you may want to consider it and talk to others about what size they have.

Shirley -- Get those birds off'ye heaaaad, they effecting u's reeeading.:nuts: :funny:
Barb has been posting and BEAMING about possibly getting a B&G for a few days now.:agree:
We still luv ya -- are you the offical "Bird Brain" now?:rotflmao:

[Shirley]

.,..
Shirley -- Get those birds off'ye heaaaad, they effecting u's reeeading.:nuts: :funny:
Barb has been posting and BEAMING about possibly getting a B&G for a few days now.:agree:
We still luv ya -- are you the offical "Bird Brain" now?:rotflmao:

:rofl: Yeah, I know, but I didn't know she was Serious!! :dance:

Oh, and I've been called worse... :funny:

[harleybaby]

WEll then I must be a birdbrain :funny: . Barb, I didn't know you were looking into a B&G. How exciting!!!!!!:highfive: I want details! LOL Did you go look already? What made you decide for a macaw instead of a grey? It's all Jim's fault isn't it with those beautiful happy boys of his. Cage shopping and all. Woohoo I'm so happy for you!!:woot:

[amazing greys]

LOL, Nothing is final, and like I said need to check out the breeder too. But yes, if you have heard me before, I have always admired the B&G and have always wanted one. Now with this oppertunity at getting a baby and at a much much lower cost than a pet store, it would be alot easier. And the fact I had Michelle tell me raised from a baby, that I shouldn't have any major concerns with Allison my 5 yr old. That was my main concern, her as you know.

You remember Char, Leah? That did it in for me, if I could've I would've taken him too, we really connected.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/superbirdie/barbcharpet2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/superbirdie/barbcharhold1.jpg

Also when we lived in FL when Tina was 1st born, hubby's friend had a Macaw, that really started my interest way back then.

I really think hubby will support me on this, I know he adores them too. If he aint sayin no, I know what that means, roflol, hehehehehe.

And yes, a baby grey will still be in the future too, that I KNOW. I think then my flock will be set, that is unless there is an emergency with one of my friends and their bird needs a home. Well, we'll just see how big that bird room will be, :funny: and go from there :p

[Ginny]

Oh how exciting. I can't wait to see that new baby come home. :agree:


I know it won't be long. :highfive:

I have to agree with everyone else I would go with a play top. I have one for Taco and she loves to get up there and play ball. We throw the ball up on top of the cage and she throws it back...and tries to hit us with it. :rofl: I think because you are getting a baby you won't have any trouble with them being up high....you can train them young. We got Taco second hand and she is 14 years old and we don't have any trouble with her on the top of the cage.....NOW I am NOT saying there aren't birds that will be a problem but I think with a young bird it shouldn't be. They are just like little children ...... you teach them young to know right and wrong.

[Shirley]

I love those photos, Barb -- I think I may have seen them before... but I love them again!

And here's hoping a baby macaw is lucky enough to join your family!!

:heart: :dance: :heart:

[Jim]

Boy does that bring back some memories Barb. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were one of, maybe the only person Char went to except her owner. I remember how much she liked you. See... Macaws like you.:D

Now you really got me thinking -- is Leah, Leah I remember from the Char days?:scratchch

[harleybaby]

Yep Jim I was over on FF too. I always enjoyed your posts over there also.;)


Barb, I know Char captured your heart, that is the one thing about my birds if any of them bonded to someone or interacted with someone better than me and they fell in love with each other and I knew they would be well taken care of and that person wanted to give them a home, I would let them take them.

So, is this a macaw through adoption with Michelle? I must have missed all these posts :rolleyes: I can't wait to hear what happens!!!!!! More details!!!:funny:

[amazing greys]

Boy does that bring back some memories Barb. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were one of, maybe the only person Char went to except her owner. I remember how much she liked you. See... Macaws like you.:D

Now you really got me thinking -- is Leah, Leah I remember from the Char days?:scratchch


Yes Jim, that is Char. He would only go to his owner, and actually HATED men. He would draw my hubby close while in the cage and stick his foot out like he wanted him to come close, then WHAMMO!! But yes, he took to me the moment I stepped in the room. In that pic where I was petting him, was a rare moment where he would allow someone else to pet him. While taking that pic, he even chased off his owner telling her he wanted me and to leave him alone!! Can u imagine that?? :p I so loved that bird, a part of him will always be with me, I so wish I could take him, I know he would recover completely with that kind of bond. I knew I couldn't take him though since the man hater thing, wouldn't be good on hubby :(

Leah, click and read this post from Friday. Mine started on #6 http://www.thebirdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2438&page=1&pp=10

This is how it got me to the point of knowing a breeder, the only way I felt comfortable bringing a B&G into our home from a baby, that way it can grow up with my kids and be less of a threat.

[amazing greys]

Leah, there would be no way, no how I'd let someone take mine if they bonded :p


In Char's instance with his feather mutaliation and considering where he was, I would Definately be good for him to have such a bond to help him recover. I wonder how he's doing now??

[harleybaby]

Most people say the same thing. I don't mean anyone off the streets, I mean a person(such as yourself who I trust ;) ) who I know without a doubt would give them a great life. If you came to my house and you and Einstein had this great awesome bond, far better than what I have with him then yep I would let you take him. That's what I mean.


Just read the thread about the B&G, I sure hope it works out for you and you've got plenty of time to work hubby in the meantime.:funny:


I agree with Jim, Dixie has her moments but there's no comparison really to Einstein.

You are gonna be so happy you did and you deserve it because you will give him a good life and thats the important part!:clap:

[amazing greys]

lol U don't want me to visit, they'd be butter in my hands :roflmao2:


No seriously, I think as you have raised Dixie and have bonded to Einstein, I doubt they would immediately bond to someone else? :shrug:


I think hubby is secretly saying yes, though he wants me to work for it, roflol :p And another, I would like to be settled in our next house before I bring a B&G baby home so it don't have to change surroundings. Our lease is up end of August. But we'll see ;)

[harleybaby]

Wow you are one patient person!. We are closing on the other house in 2 weeks and geesh it feels like forever!!!


Seriously though if you are waiting until August to get the B & G because of the house and adjusting I wouldn't worry about it. Having a baby is much different than having an adult.

[amazing greys]

True Leah, but space for a 40in cage will be the concern. Although I know I CAN fit it in the livingroom where the hockey table is at right now, got a corner that I measured and will fit perfectly there, lol, but would rather not have him in the livingroom.


I was also wondering for a baby and possibly still getting used to perching, could I put it in that big of a cage?? I can put something on the bottom of the cage in case he falls.

Yeah patient....not, just wait until I KNOW the clutch is hatched, roflol!! :nuts:

[Jim]

Yep Jim I was over on FF too. I always enjoyed your posts over there also.;)Hello old friend.:wavey: Not that your old...:D I enjoyed your posts also. I wondered about that, but always slipped my mind to ask.:shrug2:

[parrotgirl]

Bucc is very upset at the moment Barb, he saw you with another bird on your arm, LOL now he's in a sulk.

I can't wait and hope it all goes well for you. You really are patient, I have trouble waiting round for a week let alone till August. Fingers are crossed for you wishing you all the best. Bucc will too when he calms down hehehehe

[amazing greys]

:roflmao2: roflol Peta, you tell Bucc he still has a place in my :heart:



give him kisses for me :p


Will find out more when I talk to the breeder, if one is ready, yes I'll probably get one sooner, lol.

[harleybaby]

Jim, wow and I thought you knew it was me all along LOL , I'm glad you came over here also.:D


and Shoot! I typed this really long post and it disappeared.:rolleyes: Anyway, Einstein and Dixie were both in smaller cages for abit after weaning for climbing and balance and such but with a big ole macaw, I would imagine you would still need a pretty big cage for that wingspan and tail, baby birds LOVE to flap their wings. For the size cage you will need it probably wouldn't be worth getting a smaller one and probably wouldn't be too much smaller anyways. I think a baby would be fine in a large cage, you'll be amazed at how fast they learn and catch on. Maybe Jim will pop back in and tell you how he did it with his boys.

Barb's getting a B&G :dance:

[Jim]

If you think the bird can't perch well or may fall while sleeping just pad the bottom of the cage like you said.

Now for what may get me in hot water.:rolleyes: My experience with my birds and what I've seen at Steve's is -- healthy properly fledged birds have little to no problem perching. What I've seen is they fly as good or better than they perch at first. Think about the natural way they have been designed for millions of years. Out of the nest flying to a branch. Learning all this in one swift time frame. All this happens together and gives the bird good coordination.

Leah you just had baby birds that you watched go through this. You have experience and could tell us how they did. Tiel or Macaw they are both birds that go through pretty much the same thing. What did your Tiels do?

Anyway, Barb if I were you and this is strictly my preference. I would ask how the bird is fledged. I would ask for the nails to not be cut unless the bird perches excellent - they need those sharp little spikes to dig into the perch, and the regular things like if he sleeps on a perch, corner shelve, bottom. You know all that.:)

A well informed, knowledgeable buyer that asks questions, gets the product they want.;)

Here are a couple pics of T boy at around 90 days old. Perching and playing, perching on one 1 foot, and of course I had to throw in one of him getting ready to fly to Sharon because she had food at the counter. Nino went through a heavy molt that year so he looks kinda bad.

[harleybaby]

What adorable pictures!!!!! Look at Teo Awwwwww!!!!


I can say that the babies are beyond excellent fliers, within days they were flying better than any bird in my house except Harley. Harley is better because when she flies she flies fast and with confidence, the babies are still learning the house and where everything is so they are much slower but wow they can fly and fly and fly LOL

You are right though Jim, in fact the babies still don't know how to climb out of the cage or into it for that matter. They fly out and they definitely could fly before they could perch well. I remember their first time out of the box and on the perches. They began flying immediately. Dixie and the bigger birds don't fly around my house, they have been capable of it but choose to fly from object to object or straight to me but I do remmeber Dixie flying at a very early age also.

When I bought Einstein I believe he was just under a year and we kept him in his cage(she was worried about putting him in a bigger cage) to give him time to adjust and same with Dixie we didn't want to overwhelm her with a big ole cage when she was used to a tupperware container but I also had purpose for the cage when she was done so it wasn't a waste. She would have been fine though in a bigger cage, they learn really really fast. I didn't like to use towels because their nails get stuck(very good point about the nails Jim, so important) but those cloth baby diapers instead ,they seem to keep toenail snags to a minimum.

Oh this is just so exciting!! I absolutely adore B&G's so now I have someone new to live vicariously through. :funny: At least I'm smart enough to know that they are not the bird for me, not with those big old beaks.LOL Although I do remember they had one at Petsmart a few years ago and the boy that was working got bit. He described it as not being a normal type bite but more of a crushing sensation but painful, like if his hand was caught in a vice!Yikes:eek:

Sorry for the ramble, time to go to bed.

[parrotgirl]

Jim the pics are great and Teo looks adorable with or without going throu a molt. Wow Nino looks huge compared to Teo on the last Pics. I love seeing pics of your boys they are truly magnificent.:heart:


Barb, told Bucc and showed him your pic and your definately forgiven in his book, as always the wolf whistles and "Bucc likes, Lovely" Maybe he'll tell me that one day:rofl: I only get Bad and Nasty, but I know he loves me really:shrug: :roflmao2:

[amazing greys]

Thanks Jim & Leah for sharing your info :D Love the pics JIm!! Both are adorable :wub:


*Ok Jim, at what age did you bring them home when you still were handfeeding them? Did you teach them (or allow them shall I say) to fledge or did the breeder?

*Have you ever clipped them or have they always been flighted?

*And since they were flighted as babies, I guess you harnessed them from when they were small so they wouldn't fly away when you went out?

I really think I'm going to let him be flighted, and start a harness young so he will be used to it.


BTW, I haven't clipped my birds since we moved here, I could've but I didn't ;) Haven't had any problems with them not being clipped, but still either won't 'fly' they always glide down still. Maybe the tile intimidates them, lol. Akeela used to be good at turning corners, but now probably afraid of wiping out on the hard floor :nuts:

Oh Peta, I'm so glad Bucc is still happy with me :p I know he loves you too :heart:

[Jim]

*Ok Jim, at what age did you bring them home when you still were handfeeding them? Did you teach them (or allow them shall I say) to fledge or did the breeder?

Best I remember Nino was around 100-120 days -- Teo was 87 days I think. I would say Nino mostly here (started at breeders) and Teo did fledge here.

*Have you ever clipped them or have they always been flighted?

Always flighted. Nino got an accidental 2-3 feathers clipped at the vets when he was about 6 months.. Vet was showing me something and the tech got a few feathers. Was on the paper NO Clip but hey it happened.:(

*And since they were flighted as babies, I guess you harnessed them from when they were small so they wouldn't fly away when you went out?

Well no I didn't harness them as babies so to speak. Probably Okay to do tho. You know I'm a nut so I'll explain my reasoning. As a baby they pretty much except things. BUT I wonder since they don't really fight back as babies if they like it (learn that it's Okay) but later it causes problems. I don't know! Some human babies that are (I hate to use this word) forced to do things as babies grow up with behavioral problems. Anyway in the last pic you can see an old harness hanging on the door knob. We hung it where they were and took it where we went so they were used to seeing it. Once I saw they were old enough to make some choices or express their likes and dislikes I started working on wearing the harness a fun thing.

Told ya I was a nut.:nuts:

I really think I'm going to let him be flighted, and start a harness young so he will be used to it.

Good for you! I think you'll be surprised at the difference in personality and confidence. Not that it's not work at first but hey so are kids.

[amazing greys]

well thanks Jim for offering your wisdom :thumbup: You're such a trooper for answering my many questions, lol.

*So if Teo was 87ish days old, then how long did you end up handfeeding him? At that age how many feedings were you doing?

*And about how many days was he before he was fledged??

*Did you not take them out then before you introduced them to the harness?

*And at what age was it when you were teaching them 'free flight'?


I think the beauty of the Macaw wing span would be a shame to cut. I would love to see all of his beautiful wing feathers.

"A NUT"?? No different than me, roflol :nuts:


:thanx:

[Jim]

Teo was on 3 feedings a day when we brought him home. He was starting to fly is why Steve said in a kidding way "You better come get this bird, he's out of his container every time I go in the nursery." At 4 1/2 - 5 months lets say around 130-140 days he was pretty much on his own. Fledged. I guess if I was a breeder that's when I would have thought he was ready to go to a new home.

No I didn't take either one out until they would wear the harness. It didn't take long to get them to wear it. Maybe like a week. That means they willing but it on. After that it just became a stronger behavior and turned into wanting to put it on. Like a doggy and his lead. Can't give a number but I started working with the harness thing as soon as I saw them do things like backing away or opening their beak if they didn't want picked up. Now I could judge if I was teaching the harness wearing in a positive manner.

I stared teaching them both recall as soon as they were flying. The tricky part about having a flighted bird is not so much the recall (come to me) but teaching them things like not chewing the curtain rods, cabinets, etc. Each person has their own ideas about this. Some teach don't go there, some settle for a strong recall etc. Drove me crazy watching all the time and calling them off, I personally couldn't teach them to stay off things when I wasn't present. So I opted to try and teach it was OK to be there just not destroy the place. It's been working pretty good and keeps me from having to watch every second that they aren't chewing something.

If your asking about them being outside unrestrained, I don't do that any more. I did for a short time have them fly point A to B free and it was fun and exciting. After a lot of thought the risk was too high for me personally. They both did this at around 7-8 months old after the recall and flying down indoors was solid.

I've been editing a video of them flying around in the bedroom helping me change sheets, if I get the guts I'll post it. They didn't help with the sheets like they usually do, the camera had them concerned.

[amazing greys]

*So now comes the question.....if they showed signs of 'not' wanting to wear the harness, did u just wait and try again another time?



*After they decided to wear it, did you immediately go outside as a positive reward, or did you let them wear it in the house 1st and reward with a treat, then move to going outside??


*HOW did you reinforce 'not' chewing on the cabinets when they were allowed up there? What concenquences happened when they would try to 'destroy' something up there until they got the hint to not do it?


*So you don't fly recall anymore? Do you have a place to take them indoors to fly?

I would love to see more video!! Bring it on!! :highfive:

[Jim]

*So now comes the question.....if they showed signs of 'not' wanting to wear the harness, did u just wait and try again another time?

No, Showing signs is their communication saying "Hey Jim that's close enough". I respect that and stop. Stopping builds trust. I mark the spot (remember the distance) and approach to just before the "close enough" sign. Bridge (click or good) and reward. More trust building plus reward for getting that close. Once this is solid, little by Oh so little shorten the distance but don't reward for the previous distance. If the behavior falls off you back up a step.

Once they started wearing it AND taking it off we went outside for the big pay off. (the party)

*After they decided to wear it, did you immediately go outside as a positive reward, or did you let them wear it in the house 1st and reward with a treat, then move to going outside??

See above, but yes they wore it inside for short periods first. With a big pay off (party) after.

*HOW did you reinforce 'not' chewing on the cabinets when they were allowed up there? What concenquences happened when they would try to 'destroy' something up there until they got the hint to not do it?

The reinforcement is being allowed up there. That's how we need to think. It's reinforcing to be there BUT they will be removed (you need a very solid step-up here) for chewing. Not a negative consequence like cage time out or put in another room. IMO A simple OTPR (time out from positive reinforcement) works. Still on me or a stand, which is R+ but not as R+ as the cabinet. Wheeee that was a mouth full and I hope it made since. Oh and right back up in a few seconds 10 -15 (this depends on the bird) to try and get it right.

*So you don't fly recall anymore? Do you have a place to take them indoors to fly?

So it won't be confusing. I don't "free fly" my birds. I tried the point to point free flying outside which is the beginning for free flight but it wasn't worth the risk to me. Recall is anywhere, inside, outside, building, on a harness and lead. You cue, they come.

I don't have a building right now, I did when I had the company, a warehouse attached. Been looking into places and some members of our bird club seem to have some interest so hopefully that can happen.

I would love to see more video!! Bring it on!!

Well see. I've been watching it and slowly it's not making me blush.

Barb you are the best, I like it that you ask. I think the things you are asking are good for all of us to discuss so we all learn. No one knows it all or is each bird(s) the same. My problem is I think sometimes I sound like I'm preaching, which I sure hope no one take it as such.

Anyway, If you saw or remember the old "Helen Keller" movie, the lady that worked with her was a genius in the part at the table and eating. No matter what, she simply but the silverware back on the table didn't get up set or give a punishing consequence when Hellen threw food at her. She just kept at it and gave Hellen every opportunity to "get it right". Oh if I only had that kind of patience.

Here you go.

Chewing cabinet
A - on cabinet
B - chewing
C - removed to my hand
PFB - will stop chewing to get the reinforcement of staying on cabinet.

another

Chewing cabinet
A - on cabinet
B - chewing
C - I yell "get off" and clap, which works.
PFB - will chew the cabinet to get attention. (Negitive to ME could be positive to him - it's attention - period)

[amazing greys]

Thank you again Jim, you have clarified and enlightened me on many questions I've had. :thumbup:


I'm glad you were able to share your insight so others can learn as well.

A question (like you're surprised, lol).......When either accepted the harness close to them, did they try to beak it while putting it on, or after it was on??


:thanx:

[Jim]

Yes both. If the beaking was just being a bird and checking it out that was fine. If it looked as though it was threatening to them I removed it. In my mind this built trust. Once it was on, and they both did this, if they pulled or beaked it and I saw what looked like an unpleasant situation I took it off.

This sounds time comsuming and like a lot of work from the written word but it's really not. Even if it were I think the benifits of empowering them pays off for the long term relationship.

[parrotgirl]

Jim, I don't think your preaching at all, its great reading these posts, I have been trying the harness with Bucc and slowly oh so slowly he is getting it, so thanks for that. I'm sure with all the good advise here both Bucc and I will be able to get that harness on, so he can have that great party reward, out in the garden. He loves sitting on his boing looking outside and whenever I go out there I make sure he sees me with his harness.


He's probably thinking as are my neighbours what a weird person she is running around with harness and lead on her hand.:doh: I'm sure everyone around here now knows what a weird one I am. LOL

[amazing greys]

The only people that think any of us are weird, are non bird people.........they just don't get it :nuts:

[SadennaAndFlock]

we have our Military in a Dome Top she is in the Cal Cage I believe the St.Helena and it has lots of room for her..the playtops to me just look so short and small..

[parrotgirl]

The only people that think any of us are weird, are non bird people.........they just don't get it :nuts:

Here here, my friend came round the other day, and she was talking about the birds, when she said, "How do you put up with the mess" Easy get the vacum out, :doh: and they make a lot less mess than kids!!!! and don't answer back, except for Bucc!!!!

[Jim]

Peta, It's great that you and Bucc are working on the harness. Keep us updated on your progress.

It's Okay to have parties as you go. No need to make them wait till the finial event. If we think about it we have little parties each time they mumble a new word. When they say it plainer we have another party. Them before we know it they are saying everything they know. Just be as excited about getting the harness closer and all should be fine. As smart as Bucc seems to be, once he 'gets it' he may just RUN to that mean ole harness and tell you "Party Time":D

[Shirley]

Post #31 -- GREAT POST Jim! (printed it to read and share with Steve) :dance:

[parrotgirl]

Jim, I'll certainly keep you updated on the harness.

The first one is now, I managed to get a little bit closer to Bucc today with the harness, he just looked at me and gave me his laugh then said No no noooo.
I just had to laugh at that one.:rofl:

[harleybaby]

I just love Bucccccc!:heart: He is hilarious!!!!!! Good luck with the harness Peta!