Biting ?

[Dynaglide625]

OK friends, Carlo has started to bite. HARD, with no advance warning. Erin & I thought at first he was using his beak to steady himself during "step up" training, but now after stepping up he turns and grabs whatever flesh is closest.
I think I read from one of Jean's (?) notes that you're not supposed to yell. But, that's a knee-jerk reaction, and I yelled "NO CARLO" really loud.
Now what? He's 3 months old today, so he can't be going thru the "terrible twos" yet. Would appreciate any help you can offer, thanks in advance. Anne

[Jean]

OK friends, Carlo has started to bite. HARD, with no advance warning. Erin & I thought at first he was using his beak to steady himself during "step up" training, but now after stepping up he turns and grabs whatever flesh is closest.
I think I read from one of Jean's (?) notes that you're not supposed to yell. But, that's a knee-jerk reaction, and I yelled "NO CARLO" really loud.
Now what? He's 3 months old today, so he can't be going thru the "terrible twos" yet. Would appreciate any help you can offer, thanks in advance. Anne

Hi, I read you got initiated by your baby. Yes, the first bite comes as a sock. Maybe I mis phrased myself. Sometimes we can not help from reacting with a holler. I've done it myself more then once. Some say, not to show them reaction because it positively enforces the behavior. Others say, tell them NO BITE! which I prefer. I have used all types of techniques, and found a swift scold and back in the cage has worked best for me. I have also shown him my owe. I can see the shame in his reaction. This works best in Elvie's case. Try to remember, what works best for one may not always work best with another.

In your case, he's a baby that is growing and feeling his confidence this is when they start to develop self esteem and challenge you. (1. to test their place in the flock) (2.having an off moment or day) (3. he could be playing and having a good time and not want to be interrupted) maturity brings on these new behaviors. I suggest you pay close attention to what he is doing at the time he does not want to be interrupted, or what you were doing prior and at the time of the bite. (Remember they play and beak, bite, challenge, get along, and love in their natural habitat. This is what they will most likely do in captivity.) I believe you are doing fine!

If this behavior persists, you may want to make step ups a positive thing by offering a treat of some sort, once he has stepped up.

[Dynaglide625]

Thanks Jean-All day today he has been acting like he's having a tantrum. Not his usual squawks & mumbles. It kind of sounds as if he's "yelling" at us. Erin started soccer practices this week. For the next 2 weeks she's doing double sessions, that is, 9-11:30 AM, then 2-4:30 PM. So she is out for a good part of the day. Do you think he's having "separation anxiety". You know, like toddlers the first time their Mom or Dad leaves them in a day-care or pre-school? It really seems as if he's mad at us. Seamus (tiel) used to do his march around the bottom of the cage when he was mad, and at least now that we've had him for awhile we can recognize his "leave me alone" signals.
Can't tell with Carlo yet. But putting him back in his cage is a good way to show him his behavior is unacceptable? I thought that would make him hate his cage. Guess not though, it's not like we can put him in a "time out" chair. LOL. Thanks again. Anne

[Jim]

Hi Anne

Not being there to see what is actually happening makes it hard to hit the nail on the head but after giving this some thought this afternoon I'll make some suggestions.

Since Carlo is only 3 months old I'll assume the hard biting is because he doesn't know he is hurting you. Hopefully at 3 months he's not being aggressive.

If it were me, and I went thru this with both my baby macaws, I would teach him, by letting him learn, that biting too hard will result in something positive in his environment being taken away. i.e. I assume not being on you would be removing something positive to him. So simply putting him down on say a perch for a short time is a great way for him to learn that hard biting takes away a positive reinforcement. (If anyone is wondering this is -R, removing something reinforcing to the bird)

I used a small perch/playstand that I could move around with me. I kept it close, in arms length, when I was watching TV or what not. When they bit to hard I used a simple cue/word, "No", in a simple firm tone, and put them on the stand for only 10-20 seconds. I them ask them to step up again. If they didn't bite hard they got a reward, treat, head rub, etc. Practice/repetition works with birds just like it does with us. They learned this pretty quick, in a couple days.

Not to get ahead of the game here but next came the playing. I simply watched and when I saw then get ready to put their beak on my hand I used the cue word "easy". When they did easy, reward. To hard I said 'No" which they now knew and put them on the stand, again for a 10-20 seconds. This also, with a lot of repetition, was only a few days.

Of course I had to keep it up the harder we started playing and doing different things, but today I'll honestly say that even when something happens that they do not like, accidental event, they do not bite me. They do put their beak on me fast and hold firm but never hard or bite.

Hope this helps.

[Jean]

Jim had some excellent ideas too. He reminded me I have a small wood stool, no back, I have put them on for time out too I have positioned it in the middle of the kitchen floor so there was nothing close by. That works well for short term visits. (10 minutes)Elvie has learned to swing himself downward and climb off a leg. (Grrrr -my little stinker) the other fids I've used it with have stayed until I move them.

[Jim]

Ya know... sometimes the written word can be taken so many ways I get really concerned that I didn't make my thoughts/input clear. Not trying to split hairs or beat the horse... LoL

The main point I was trying to make is that first and for most we should evaluate whether the biting is a lack of knowing how to use the beak or if the biting is aggressive and/or a display of dislike.

A child learning to play bangs their toys on everything. We hold them and they bang us with toys, pull our ears too hard, and even poke our eyes. A young bird does the same with his beak, bites and chews toys, and when on us he knows no difference... yet... so he might bite and even try to chew on us and it hurts.

That's my main reasoning for the short 'TO's' (time outs) and a quick return to the activity. Gives them a chance to get it right without a longer than needed 'TO' that may be confusing or cause other side effects.

:) :wavey: :)

[Dynaglide625]

Well, I tried your suggestions, mainly returning Carlo to his cage for time out, and it seems to be working. First he gets a stern "NO" or "NO BITE" then gets put back in his cage for a minute or two. Today I asked him if he wanted "out", he left his food dish, and came to the cage door. I told him to step up, and he opened his beak just a bit to steady himself on my hand and stepped up. I took him out and made a bit of a fuss with "good boy" then some scritches behind his "ear". I got little chirps in return. I think we are making progress. Plus, I swear he's trying to say "step up" & "what?" At least that's what it sounds like to us. Thanks for your help, will keep you posted. Anne

[Jim]

Well, I tried your suggestions, mainly returning Carlo to his cage for time out, and it seems to be working. First he gets a stern "NO" or "NO BITE" then gets put back in his cage for a minute or two. Today I asked him if he wanted "out", he left his food dish, and came to the cage door. I told him to step up, and he opened his beak just a bit to steady himself on my hand and stepped up. I took him out and made a bit of a fuss with "good boy" then some scritches behind his "ear". I got little chirps in return. I think we are making progress. Plus, I swear he's trying to say "step up" & "what?" At least that's what it sounds like to us. Thanks for your help, will keep you posted. AnneGreat news Anne! Thank you for the thank you, that sounds funny. You're the one doing the good job. We just try to share what we have found out. I love to hear stories like this. Keep up the good work, keep us posted and feel free to ask questions.

:goodjob:

[Jean]

:goodjob: I am glad to read your progress update! Keep up the good work!:highfive: