Hi! I'm Romeo's mama. A rescued DYH Amazon [Archive]

bird-lover34

08-19-2005, 10:35 PM

Thanks for the prompt replies! Romeo is a mature Amazon but I am not sure if I believe the guy I got him from. He said he "thought" he was about 10 years old. I would sure love to know for sure. He was in deplorable conditions. In a rabbit wire cage with only one huge tree branch for a perch about 12" diameter. A "cell" mate female which he didn't like (I guess) because she was bald from him pecking her. Since they couldn't perch they climbed all over the cage like monkeys. Only a seed diet. When I asked the guy what he had been feeding him so I could wean him slowly over to a pellet diet, he just poo pooed it and said "Whatever you feed him, if he gets hungry enough, he'll eat it". Romeo has been with us 3 weeks now. When he first came home to a nice big cage he did his Jackie Chan routine for the first day. then he settled down on the perches and has decided the red graveled (?) perch he likes best.
He has conquered his fear of us pretty much as long as we are outside the cage and he is inside. But we are having a heck of a time trying to get him out of the cage on a T perch so I can get him to step up. He absolutely fights us all the way. We have to towel him to get him out and he hates that! He is then in a pissy mood when we set him down on the t perch. We hand him a seed and he takes it and spits it out!
Since we have had him though, he will sit on the t perch although he sometimes flies off and then we have to towel him to get him back on the t perch or back in the cage. He just will not step up. He has learned how to take sunflower seeds from our hands though and is making a few little noises like he wants to talk but normally he is very quiet all day. Never any screams except when we towel him. I tried using the clicker but that didn't seem to improve anything. I really don't know if that is effective.
One of my questions is: would it be better to put on leather gloves and get him out quickly even though he really is scared of them? Or is it better to keep towelling him although he is scared of that too!? It is harder to towel him in the cage because of the perches etc that get in the way. I tried letting him come out by himself on top the cage but boy, he really asserts himself up on top because he is higher than us. Standing on a step stool didn't help because we can't reach all the way to the back of the cage that way and I am afraid he might fall down between the wall and the cage and hurt himself. I opened the front cage door and put the T perch next to the open door hoping he would hop on it but nope! he just climbed out using his Jackie Chan method and went up top. We toweled him and took him in my bathroom (less chances of him getting hurt there) to step up train. He got both feet on a couple of times but doesn't stay on it. After training, I put him in the shower and gave him a bath. He wasn't thrilled with the shower but I think he felt better afterward, after we got him back in the cage and gave him some nice food.
I probably am expecting too much in such a short length of time but I just need to know what course to follow and how to keep his stress level down as much as possible. If I were confident in what we are doing, it probably wouldn't be so confusing not knowing if we are doing right or not.
Anyway, Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If you wish to email me, feel free. My email address is: velmilton@netzero.com

Shirley

08-19-2005, 10:52 PM

Welcome!!

I am SO GLAD you found us! We will help you, and it will take some time, and patience is going to be your best ally. First and foremost, you need to earn his trust.

We really need to move this discussion over to the Amazon forum, so I think I'll do that, and leave a copy here, so your introduction is here.

This will be a long discussion, and I would strongly suggest you read the very long threads begun by Morgavin and his Amazon. He has made AMAZING progress with Pepper!

Off to copy your thread, and then I'll post some more...

Congrtulations to you!

:wub: :wavey:
~ Shirley

Shirley

08-19-2005, 11:09 PM

OK, first of all, until you understand the basics of clicker training, don't begin. It's very easy, but it's a positive reinforcement training technique for a behavior the bird does of its own accord, not a device you use to get the bird to do something you want it to do. I have some clicker training movies on my website if you're interested, and they are linked in the clicker training threads on this site -- you might find them by doing a search or I'll find the threads for you shortly if you're interested.

It's not necessary to try to get him out of his cage so soon if he is afraid to leave it.

I would not worry about that, and not do anything that is frightening or causes him to feel insecure, fear, or distrust around you. Instead, just sit and talk with him through the cage bars. He'll let you know when he's ready to be touched, handled, and such. I wouldn't use gloves unless his safety is at stake and you must get him out for his own good for some reason.

Diet: lots of fresh veggies - check out the Practical Links and Elements of Bird Care forums (click the drop-down box and go back 100 days) and find the unsafe (toxic) foods list first. Sprouts for birds... ours get those almost daily. A healthy mixture of grains and certain nuts (go real easy on the sunflower seeds - save them for treats - they are fattening), and perhaps 40% pellets *imo* - and I personally recommend Harrison's, Roudybush, or Zupreem brands in that order. You can get Roudybush online at http://foryourbird.com You can also order GoldenFeast Hookbill Legume there.. all our parrots love that as they main staple food in addition to their fresh veggies/sprouts.

Key Need: He needs to be seen by an Avian vet, not a regular vet. Routine blood work, fecal, general checkup. This is pretty important, and should include a good bit of education from the avian vet during the exam. Hopefully, the vet will spend 45 min with you during the exam. Bring a list of questions with you. Have the vet teach you how to properly hold him with a towel, how to deal with a broken blood feather, routine safety/first aid things like that.

Sleep: He needs 10-12 hrs uninterrupted dark quiet sleep w/a night light. Is he accustomed to having his cage covered at night? The TV should be off, and the room should be silent once it's his bedtime. Ours sleep from 9:30 or 10:00 until about 9:30 in the morning. My avian vet's cockatoos go to bed much earlier and get up much earlier.

Noise: He's going to want to make loads of noise at least a couple times a day to express himself, and one of those times is usually around dinnertime or shortly after. This can last 15 minutes to an hour, and is a very pleasurable time for him. Have fun with this.

There's so much more -- I've not even broken the tip the of the iceberg, and I'm by no means an Amazon expert... you'll get loads of good info here... keep the info coming, and give him plenty of time to warm up to you, it's all on his terms. :)

And Bless you for rescuing him! :wub:

Jim

08-20-2005, 12:06 AM

Ditto everything already said.

With patience, patience and more patience. Yep,,, patience works around here. :)

Thank You for taking in this zon, That is very kind hearted of you.

Jean

08-20-2005, 02:10 AM

Shirley, thanks,for moving this discussion here so we can all continue. You gave great input! :heart:

Bird-Lover, I think Shirley has set forth some important and thorough ideas to start with. Secondly, I agree, with her and Jim.

Start with a well balanced diet, it may take time for him to accept some foods for the primary reason you are establishing a new diet that he may not recognize or associate some of it as food. Parrots are creatures of habit, keep that in mind as you work with them. You will learn his likes and dislikes, he may like some fresh, some soft cooked, some blended or chopped together. Try to put yourself in his place to visualize how you would feel in a new foreign place especially after coming from a dungeon of horrid conditions. He needs you to teach him everything, good nutrition, love, kindness, understanding, concentration, joyful excitement, showering, learning how to enjoy living with you in general.

(patience) (understanding) (soft spoken) (kindness) (always praise them when he achieves even the tiniest goal) tell him hes a good bid, make him feel proud of himself. :heart:

I notice you mentioned you gave him a shower and he did not like it. It is possible he has been punished with sprays of water or neglected of showers.
Either the case, I would suggest a soft gentle spray in a sink with a sprayer to begin with, then as he learns to accept it progress to the larger showers. My U2 hates the bathtub, he feels more secure with a good gentle spray in the sink.

Patience and trust building should be your first and forever goals as you gain trust in each other. Once you are able to establish trust you can start to progress to another step. I would not stick force him heavily yet, I would start sitting in a chair next to his cage, a card table or kitchen chair so you can pull it up beside his cage and share pics as you read to him. They like to be read children's stories and shown the pics as you read, this is enforcing a positive and patient way of getting to know one another through communication. I have spent several days a week doing this for more then month working with a cockatoo that was no longer tame due to severe living conditions, malnutrition and abuse.

I do not know your situation of other household pets, if you do not have cats, dogs, or any other pets in the house when you are home I would encourage you to open the cage door so he can come out on his own and learn it can be a safe environment outside of his cage,it will take a while for him to feel secure. Secondly, I suggest a play tree or gym for him to spend time out on daily away from his cage. Once he learns he can have a safe place to go to he will look forward to going there. By this time you have been earning trust, now I suggest Taking him to a fun spot, offering him a treat, maybe a nutriberry, nut, piece of fruit, this is when I would work with the step up the most. Another good way to teach them once he is learning to trust you is to play a fun step up game, go sit on the floor with him and a few other people, take some bird treats for each one to hold, now, pass the birdie by stepping from you to the next person, allow them time to praise him and give him a treat, repeat as he goes from one to another, watch him for signs of boredom then praise him and return him to his play stand or cage.

I hope this helps a little,it is a basic start. :heart: Good Luck!

bird-lover34

08-20-2005, 07:34 PM

Wow! Thanks for all the input! I got him some regular pellets today instead of the fruit flavored ones that he doesn't seem to like. I plan on making some of the recipes that were posted. He has his head deep in his dish as I am writing this and trying out some of the new things I put in there. He likes mini carrots and broccoli but a little goes a long way with him. I've been keeping the nuts etc pretty much out of his food dish and saving those for training times. But you know, this morning when I toweled him to get him out of the cage, for the first time he didn't attack and bite the towel like he usually does. And we did our training in my bathroom. He got up on the perch about 3 times but he doesn't want to stay on it so I don't force him and let him go back to the T perch and give him the treats. And as I was talking softly with him, I reached out to him with my finger and stroked the top of his beak and he acted like he really liked that. I touched his feet with my hand just briefly and that was fine but when I started to stroke his chest with the back of my hand he reached down and bit me but he didn't bite hard. So that to me is progress. He just wanted to let me know it's a little too soon to get so initmate!LOL. He rode on his T perch all the way back into the living room and to his cage without wings flapping and he has been very calm all day. Sometimes I wonder about that....because he never makes any loud noises at all. (I should complain....????) He doesn't know how to play with toys because he never had any. He just sits on his perch and watches the daily doings of 4 small dogs and 1 cat. Doesn't seem to be afraid of them when they approach his cage. He used to go into fear stance when my husband would approach his cage but he is not doing that now. My husband has been going over to his cage and talking very softly and singing him a little song every day so now he is not afraid of him anymore. I feel encouraged that he is coming along a little more every day.
Thanks everyone for all your input.
Jean, Elvie is magnificient! And Shirley, do you have an African Grey & a Cockatoo also? How did you get your pictures to come up? It keeps saying my picture is too big and it is way less than specified. I couldn't even get a thumbnail up.
V

Shirley

08-21-2005, 01:15 PM

Hi there! So glad we could be of help!

If you'll send me the pic you want to use for an avatar, I'll size it for you. You are limited on file size and physical size based on the number of posts you post. So for now, I *think* you have to stick with 50x50 and under 30Kb, not sure. But send me what you want and I'll make it and send it back unless you have the editing software and know how to do that sort of thing.

It's really good that you are doing the training out of site of his cage -- :thumbup:

You've come a long way! I would suggest that you eliminate the toweling to get him out of his cage, or else wait until he is ready to come out without being toweled in order to do so. Everything should be based on trust, not fear or anything perceived as force.

When you treat him, give him teeny tiny pieces so it's a "quick treat" and then on to another behavior, or a repeat of the same one.

You're doing a great job! His diet is sounding much improved!

:dance:

Shirley

08-21-2005, 01:25 PM

PS: I meant to answer your question about my birds: We have:
Holly, 2 yr old female African Grey
Skyler, Male Rose-Breasted Cockatoo
Shelby, Bare-eyed Cockatoo who now lives with our Avian vet (we had her for 3-1/2 yrs, she is 4)
Play-Doh, 2 yr old male Senegal
Michelle, yr old female African Red-Belly
(Senegals and Red-bellies are both of the Poicephalus genus)
Tucker, nearly a yr old male cockatiel
Several Bourke's parakeets - Kilroy was our first bird together and she is 4-1/2
Pair green rump parrotlets
Pair Pacific parrotlets
Pair color mutation Pacific parrotlets (yellow and blue)
Nugget, male African Paradise Whydah (2 or 3 yrs, but age unknown)
I think I remembered everyone...
And two grown sons... Troy and Trevor! :)

If you go to the various species forums, and click the drop-down box to go back 100 days, you'll find photos and stories of all our birds. Same is true in the Squawk n Talk forum... and you'll find everyone else's stories and photos if you go back several weeks.

:wub:

Jean

08-21-2005, 04:31 PM

I am glad we could help you and your new feathered child. :heart: :wub:
:thanx: for the lovely compliment about Elvie. He is definitely Magnificent bird to us.:heart: :wub: we've had him 11 years, so we know each other very well. Him being our only pet makes him extra special, he gets all our attention and love in a huge package. :wub:

morgavin

08-21-2005, 11:18 PM

:wavey: Hi,
I just hought I'd add my :cents: and a little of my experience with Pepper. SHe is a rescued YNA. I totally agree with the suggestions so far. Especially the patience. I found that with Pepper, who also didn't want to leave her cage, that if I opened the cage and asked her to get up and she refused, I would just close the cage, talk to her for another good while, then try again. Eventually she started to not be so protective of her cage ( her sanctuary ) and more comfortable with me and now its no problem. She doesn't play with toys unless I'm playing with her. Even up to today. Your fid may catch on and eventually play with them on his own.
I had quite the problem with her biting also. You could read the threads I have posted in this forum and get an idea of what you could have been dealing with. Shirley and Jean and others have posted sooo much good advice in those threads :agree: . You may have to go back 2-3 months to follow them from the beginning.
Good luck with your fid and welcome to the forum

bird-lover34

08-22-2005, 03:52 PM

Thanks again, all, for the help! I have decided that I am not going to try to get Romeo out of his cage by toweling. Yesterday was a disaster. By the time I got him out of the cage, he was so mad he wouldn't do ANYTHING! It was his bath day and so I just gave up with training and gave him his shower, which I have come to the conclusion he does not like. So next time, I will put a pan in the bottom of the shower for him to bathe in. I have tried that a couple of times in the bottom of his cage and he ignores it. But every day we learn a little more.
Today, I just opened up the top and he came out on top of the cage. I just let him stay there and put a little play tree I made him next to the cage with dingles and dangles on it. He was interested and even stepped on it for a minute or two. He walked all around the cage even coming up very close to me (maybe 6" away from my face) while I talked softly to him. I didn't try to make him step up or try to touch hm at all. I think he enjoyed the time out and he went right back in when I enticed him with sunflower seeds.
What does it mean when he goes from side to side on the perch, back and forth, back and forth?. He has food, water and so I don't know what that action means.
I will go back and read all the threads about Pepper and the biting thing.
Vel

bird-lover34

08-22-2005, 04:14 PM

Wow, Shirley you must have a huge house to have such a large and interesting variety of birds! I couldn't figure out how to send you the photo of Romeo to do the avatar. My photo editing program has reduced the resolution, and the size is only 5K when the max specified is 9K. It still says the picture is too big. I made it 31 pixels by 48 pixels and it still won't take it. Can't figure out what I am doing wrong.
Is there a place you can chat when you notice a buddy on line?
If you will email me your email address I will send you the photo. I appreciate your help. velmilton@netzero.com
Thanks, bird-lover34

Shirley

08-22-2005, 04:41 PM

Well, I USED to have a huge house when we lived in Louisiana, and had all sorts of pets for my young sons (reptilian, amphibian, fish, and outdoor pets, such as llamas) but no birds! Actually, it's a regular ranch-style house w/a basement...
and four large cages in the living room/diningroom, 1 flight cage, and 1 medium cage, then Kilroy lives in the bedroom withus (our 1st Bourke's). That's also where all the Bourke's free-fly together when we allow them out.

So... it's a zoo here... the kids in the neighborhood love it; I'm sure their parents roll their eyes.

:rotflmao:

Shirley

08-22-2005, 04:46 PM

Swaying back and forth... could be excitement, boredom, habit, dancing, hungry and seeing that you are eating, you name it. :p

If he does it all alone when no one is in the room and just looks kind of "out there", then it sounds OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and he's REALLY bored and has learned to do this to zone out... my opinion.

Shirley

08-22-2005, 04:49 PM

If you will email me your email address I will send you the photo. I appreciate your help. velmilton@netzero.com
Thanks, bird-lover34

Can you email me the photo to halstatt@gmail.com ?

I'll fix it and email it back to you. I don't know why it's not working for you, but I can likely get it to work, and then you can upload it.

Email the original, and let me start from there... I'll resize, crop, etc.

~ Shirley

Jean

08-22-2005, 11:45 PM

(Is his back and forth on a fast pace from one side to the other?) (is it more of a short pace?) (or more of a body sway?) I've seen a bird do that when they display anxiety or hyper behavior. That could be displayed if they want or need out of their cage. Some people pace, many animals pace, Have you ever seen a dog in a fenced yard and a stranger near the fence that dog will often pace with excitement. (Pacing is a display of anxiety) (screaming can be a behavior of anxiety). It could also be (OCD behavior as Shirley mentioned, this is often a result of a bird that has had to amuse himself because of being caged and living in lonely (or) lonely and substandard conditions. Once you get accustomed to reading the birds behavior it will help to pinpoint what causes certain behaviors.

Jim

08-23-2005, 11:21 AM

Hello Vel

I've been reading this thread and the suggestions and info you've gotten are great, so I've stayed out of it so things would stay simple. I am glad you have decided to not towel Romeo to get the behavior you are looking for. Great!!!

Romeo coming out and playing then going back in when enticing (I use the word motivating) him is good progress. It may seem like a small step but I'm a firm believer in very small steps/approximations. In my experience small steps/approximations are easier on both the trainer and the trainee and become deeper ingrained in both. i.e. They almost will become habit for both and that makes life easier.

How do I see a side to side movement on the perch of any bird? First I see some type of energy being released by the movement. The reason I do it this way is I have seen this behavior in both a happy bird and a nervous bird. Now I can move on to what is causing the behavior. Happy energy being released or nervous energy being released. i.e. Is the bird experiencing something enjoyable or experiencing something undesirable. Only you, the person in the environment, with the bird can really evaluate this.

I think I would also take it slow and easy on the showers which you are doing. Good thinking. Yes birds need showers but remember, 'usually' this is something they will do when they feel comfortable and secure. A wet bird is a venerable bird, this is hard wired, so I wouldn't push this too much right now.

What has helped me when working with birds is I try to keep a mind set of the bird being the same size as me. This helps me focus on whether I am being forceful or giving the bird a choice to learn the behavior becuase he/she wants to do it for the reward and enrichment of his/her life.

Keep up the good work. You're doing great. :thumbup:

Jim

08-23-2005, 11:58 AM

Me again....

One other thing that my help. I have found that, if at all possible, it is better to work on new things with a bird before feeding.

We can look at our life experiences and get answers to some of our questions. Young and old alike are more motivated to help set the table, sing a little song, or put their toys away right before dinner. Less motivation to clean up, wash dishes, or sing that little song right after dinner.

Works well with my birds. :)

Jean

08-23-2005, 04:31 PM

Great input Jim! :heart: I totally agree! :highfive:

PS: The only difference is my Elvie, when he is hungry he will not cooperate. He's definitely not the rule of the thumb!

bird-lover34

08-24-2005, 03:30 PM

Thanks Jean & Jim for your insight on the pacing. That is what is so confusing to me, as to whether it is stress related or what? He doesn't know how to play with the toys I have in the cage for him so "bored?" I don't know. He paces when I put food in his cage and he will pace for a while then go eat. Don't know if he just doesn't like the looks of what is offered and is saying "Give me some SEEDS!" I have removed all the sunflower seeds and peanuts from his daily diet, giving him instead a mixture of regular pellets, fruit flavored pellets, a little of the "parrot" mixture sans the sunflower seeds, fresh veggies, carrots, broccoli, lettuce, spring greens etc. Also a small slice of fruit, peach, apple, pear. He will eventually eat but he does it slowly like over a period of hours. But that is not the only time he paces. Sometimes for no reason at all.
I take his dish out at night and was doing the training first thing in the morning so he would be a little hungry. But since I am not taking him out of the cage, and not using food rewards for him just coming out of the cage, I just fed him his regular pellet foods today.
This morning he acted like he really wanted to get out of the cage. So I went through the routine of confining the dogs to the kitchen, turning off the ceiling fans, putting the cat out etc. LOL and opened the top of his cage. Boy he was out in a flash and he walks all over the top of the cage for awhile then sort of settles down in one place to chill out. Today he decided to climb down on the t perch next to the cage on a little table. I hung a necklace made of wood beads on it and he started chewing on the "toy". First time he has done that. When he got tired he went back in the cage and ate his breakfast. I haven't even tried to do any perch training with him. When I approach the cage when he is out he acts scared and backs off to the back of the cage. I usually just talk to him briefly and then leave him. Trying to gain his trust back.
Today, while he had his leisure time on top the cage, I was separating the sunflower seeds from the "parrot" mix while sitting in my chair about 5 feet away from him. He came to the edge of the cage and starting fluttering his wings like the "eagle". I thought he might be fixing to fly off but he didn't. He kept doing that several times and then I realized why. He saw me separating the sunflower seeds and he wanted some! So because he was communicating with me, I put a few seeds in his dish inside the cage. He made a bee line for them back in the cage.
I still would love to know what the pacing is all about though. I kind of doubt it is boredom and there really is no stressful environment for him so I am kind of led to think it is him telling me he isn't happy with all those healthy fruits and veggies. He still wants his sunflower seeds. He does eventually eat the good foods. He just isn't thrilled with them.
Do you think I could start using the clicker when he is on top the cage to let me gradually move the perch toward him and then reward when he doesn't step back?
One step at a time, I guess.

Jean

08-24-2005, 03:44 PM

Since he does not know how to play. He may and may not learn. Our Nanday conure never learned to play, she just wanted our company, she loved to bob her head up and down for us. As many chewing and preening things as possible would be great. Even some ,safe small, wood branches with leaves still on them if possible. A whisk broom is great for preening, pieces of cardboard, adding machine paper as well as wood blocks,they can be purchased or strung on safe rope or wire and hung in the cage to chew and preen. Just keep getting to know each other so you can both share a trusting bond.:heart:

Thanks, for the updates, it sounds like you are coming along fine. :highfive:

morgavin

08-24-2005, 08:13 PM

This morning he acted like he really wanted to get out of the cage. So I went through the routine of confining the dogs to the kitchen, turning off the ceiling fans, putting the cat out etc. LOL and opened the top of his cage. Boy he was out in a flashI kind of doubt it is boredom and there really is no stressful environment for him :shrug2:
I may have missed what environment you fid was used to. It may take some time to adjust to the other household members if it wasn't around dogs and a cat.......

Jean

08-25-2005, 02:12 AM

Neil, her bird came from a terrible environment prior to her bringing him home. So it's understandable he will take some time to adjust to a new home with a kind and loving person.

I have only observed an ency bird pace back and forth. Some others may of observed different situations. On a whim of excitement Elvie will pace with anxiety and say "un out" until I open his cage door. Other birds may choose to scream instead to get their message across when they want out of the cage.Then again, others may just stammer as they pace with emotion.

bird-lover34

08-25-2005, 08:46 PM

Thanks all for the input! The dogs (all of them senior canines) seem like they have accepted Romeo as part of the family because they go up to the cage and just check him out and then leave. But when he starts flapping his wings or gets down in the bottom of his cage and starts stripping the bark off the tree branch in there, they come to see if he is all right. They leave when they see he is OK. The cat totally ignores him.(she's about 12 yrs old) Of course the cat weighs about 30 lbs so she is huge and not very active. LOL.

I think Romeo's side to side pacing is related to food. Tonight I gave him some new stuff, some trail mix with pineapple, mango, raisins, walnuts, papaya and cranberries. Just a few pieces tossed in along with carrots & broccoli and his regular pellets. He tasted a few pieces of the unfamiliar foods and then started pacing. He then went back and ate some more out of the dish, then returns to his favorite perch.
I am so happy that you are helping me get Romeo to a place where he feels safe and happy. He is starting to play a little more. He started trying to tear apart the toilet paper core that I slid over one of his perches. I do have an adding machine roll hanging in his cage but he hasn't figured out what that is for yet. He briefly sort of preened the other hanging toy with lots of strings etc on it. Otherwise, he just sits on his perch and looks around during the day. Some times he takes a nap.
He seems to be a lot happier now and that makes me happy too.

Jean

08-25-2005, 09:09 PM

It's good to hear he is doing better a little at a time. keep up the good work!

You can even thread some of the adding machine tape in and out between some of the bars, that may help entice him to chew it. It will take him a while to learn to like new foods. Some he will learn to like others he may never like or associate as real food.

bird-lover34

08-28-2005, 01:25 PM

Hello All, Since I have stopped toweling Romeo to get him out of the cage, I felt I was making progress with him. He's been coming out of the cage and walking around on top. He is taking seeds from my fingers and is learning to put one foot on the perch, with me clicking and rewarding him for each progressive step.
But OMIGOSH! Today I almost had a heart attack! I always pen the dogs up in the kitchen with a gate across the door when Romeo is out of the cage. Today however, Romeo flew into the kitchen and of course the dogs were on top of him in an instant. I started screaming at the top of my lungs and that scared three of the dogs enough they weren't attacking Romeo but my Chihuahua WAS trying to bite him, even though I was spanking her and screaming as loud as I could. They all stepped back and poor Romeo was backed into a corner on the floor. I had to throw a towel over him to get him back to the cage. My knees were knocking together I was so scared! So was he, I am sure. I looked him over good and he doesn't appear to have any injuries and now two hours after the traumatic incident, he seems peaceful and calm and is acting normal. But mama is still shaking in her boots!
So from now on, I will banish the dogs to the bedroom with the door shut to make sure no more flight problems.
It upsets me (probably more than Romeo, I think) because now I wonder if toweling him again is going to bring us back to zero again and lose all the trust we had been building. I didn't think Romeo could fly that far into the kitchen with his wings clipped.
He hasn't been trying to fly anywhere else in the house when I have let him out of the cage. He surprised me by going airborne especially when I was bringing his food to him.
Just wanted to share my traumatic experience. (still shaking)
Vel

Jean

08-28-2005, 05:38 PM

What a traumatic close encounter, Poor Romeo.:heart: Yes, it is always important to lock the dogs completely out of sight and reach to avoid any dangers . Secondly, I did not realize Romeo was still flighted. It is often easier to work with a clipped bird and often safer in most circumstances. If you choose to have him clipped, please, be sure to have it properly done by a certified avian vet. However, if he's clipped there can be no near mistakes with the dogs again. Thank goodness, he seems alright. All you can do is insure his safe surroundings and give him plenty of love and self assurance and as you continue to work with him. "Good Luck"

Jim

08-28-2005, 09:27 PM

Hi Vel

What an scare that must have been! - glad everything is Okay.

Ditto what Jean said. I think Jean may have missed it - you say he is clipped right - just surprised he could fly that far?

When you're in the kitchen can he see you fixing his food? If so I think I would keep him caged. Also as Jean said probably better if the dogs are in the bedroom room when Romeo is out. I've seen birds that the owner thought couldn't fly or get lift fly pretty far. Do you think maybe he saw you in the kitchen or when he saw the food he got so excited the adrenaline took over and he was able to fly that far? Sorry for all the questions.

Nice to hear you and Romeo are doing so good. That's great! I think everything is fine about the toweling after the dog scare. Most of the time in a situation like that everything is happening so fast and scary, they don't fall back to being fearful of you. Even if he shows signs of being a little shy or stand offish toward you I'd bet he will be fine in no time. Steve Martin calls it the trust bank. You seem to have build a lot of trust in that account already so a little withdraw do to an emergency shouldn't be a big deal.

It's not easy for me to share the not so pleasant happenings. I comment you for sharing your scary moment with us.

bird-lover34

08-29-2005, 12:35 AM

Thanks everyone, yes, Romeo has been clipped by the Vet. She clipped just the wing feathers, every other one. I just didn't think he would fly that far. He can't see me in the kitchen but he knew I was in there. And just as I came back with his food dish, he decided to fly in there and see what else there was to eat, I guess. LOL. Anyway, my Chihuahua is keeping a very low profile. I offered her a taste of ice cream on a spoon and she wouldn't come and get it. I guess she thought I was still mad at her.

Romeo seems fine and doesn't seem to be real nervous when we approach the cage other than just raising up a little and giving us the once over.

I am glad he won't hold it against me for toweling him again. I literally ran to the cage so he wasn't in it very long.
Thanks for all your support
Vel

Shirley

08-29-2005, 01:03 AM

Ditto what Jean and Jim said, and DO count your blessings... a good friend lost their 23 yr old Amazon to a labrador they had been babysitting for many weeks... last thing they expected... but a bird out of the cage and a dog in the area... it was tragic! They were home at the time.

Don't EVER underestimate the distance a clipped bird can fly. And never trust your dogs - ever.

That said, you are lucky indeed and we applaud you for sharing so that others may learn.

Keep up the good work with your training and trust-building! :highfive:

Jean

08-29-2005, 01:29 AM

Sorry,I did not make my point clear. Meaning if you have a bird clipped where I would suggest having it done, for the reason they are educated and skilled to clip it accurate to avoid flight.

Here is what I said.
If you choose to have him clipped, please, be sure to have it properly done by a certified avian vet.

Anyway, I am glad he is safe. :) you keep up the good work!:heart:

morgavin

09-11-2005, 11:35 AM

Hi Vel
I was setting my appointment for behavior/training at my vets website. They have a continuing education section and I found an article you might find useful in helping you understand and deal with Bobo coming out of his cage. Enjoy......
http://www.avianmedicalcenter.net/onthewing/article.nhtml?uid=10004
http://www.parrot-behaviour.info/library/sg_friedman/articles/straighttalk.pdf

Jean

09-11-2005, 03:33 PM

Neil, your vets web page is excellent. You are fortunate to be located within close proximity of such a well educated avian vet that is also as educated to parrot behaviors. I've found some some do not extend their education into the aspects of their emotional behaviors.

I truly believe understanding avian behavior is the most important aspect of working with a bird. Something we humans are often not in tune to. I often think about how many humans fail in their personal, marital relationships because one or more fails to try to understand the other. Taking this in consideration, I share that same perspective with our human / bird relationship. Only this is where the human must be in tune to the parrot. The parrot already reads us and is in tune to our behaviors and if we want a truly successful relationship with them we must equally understand how to read theirs.

Quote your vet! :clap:

In this light, it becomes so clear that the critical antecedent to her biting is not my putting my hand in her cage; it’s ignoring her non-aggressive communication, requesting me to remove it. Only when I ignore her communication and persist does she resort to biting.

:thanx: for sharing her behavioral views with everyone.

Sue

09-12-2005, 04:41 AM

Jim

09-12-2005, 02:46 PM

In this light, it becomes so clear that the critical antecedent to her biting is not my putting my hand in her cage; it’s ignoring her non-aggressive communication, requesting me to remove it. Only when I ignore her communication and persist does she resort to biting. :agree: :woot: I love :heart: it!

Neil you have a great vet!

gary&chloe

09-12-2005, 02:52 PM

It's A Miracle !!!

gary&chloe

09-12-2005, 03:01 PM

It took me almost two weeks of sitting on the floor next to my Princess cage, when I first met her. She wouldn't come out of the corner of her cage. But, like most birds she wondered what this fat, old, ugly guy is doing sitting on the floor. When she finally came over, I gave her a grape. She took it and moved away.

If you saw us today, you would think she and I have been together forever. Take your time. Move at his pace. I had some days when I felt like it was two steps forward and one back. But I just kept at it. Take your time. You will look back on this time and think how worth it, it all was.

Thank you for taking him in. You are a kind and good person.

bird-lover34

09-13-2005, 01:50 AM

Thanks for the links and the suggestions. They are great. Since I wrote this thread we have changed my FID's name from Romeo to BoBo. He says that word a lot and responds to it when we talk to him using that name to address him. He is doing wonderfully well. He is coming closer to me, stepping one foot on my hand (still two fearful to use both feet) but he will get better. He even tries to keep my finger there by holding on so he can get clicked and treated faster. Very seldom does he try to bite while he is outside the cage. Inside the cage is a different matter. He will not take treats through the bars and if my fingers come close to him while he is in the cage he growls and moves away. So, my interaction with him is mostly when he comes out of the cage and he is receptive to me being close to him then. I'm not pushing it, some day he may step on my hand while in the cage but right now it is not that important.
I am still getting him more used to sitting on his T perch, as I can move him from room to room then. I want to get him in the shower soon but he hasn't chosen to get on his T perch the last couple of days. We are going at his pace so the next time he gets on there, he's getting a bath! LOL
The articles from your Vet was wonderful and I really enjoyed them. Answered some of my questions about how the birds think.
Thanks again.